Comment by metaesn

7 months ago

What is a lie? what is the truth? It is very difficult to find the truth, and the descriptions of the same thing are different for different persons. So the title and its content is a lie.

17 comments

metaesn

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sesm  7 months ago

There is a famous "4 theories of truth" classification: Correspondence, Coherence, Consensus and Pragmatic.

In this case they are talking about mathematical truth, which is a case of Coherence truth.

blueprint  7 months ago

Your question is very simple to solve for someone who has done enough real philosophy lol :) a lie is when you tell something differently than it is. the truth means "what exists as it is".

If you say that "it is difficult to find the truth", aside from the blatant subjectivity of your claim, then , if we believe your statement, then that itself must be a "truth". And yet you invalidate your own claim immediately by saying "different for different persons". Well, if that statement is true, then it invalidates itself as well.

You cannot disprove the existence of truth by using a system that relies on truth and falsehood.

  • metaesn  7 months ago

    You seem to have some misunderstandings about truth. Many truths are our understanding of real existence, not existence itself. Obviously, our understanding of complex things may be different, but complex things do exist.

    For example, the movement of things exists, but Newton's understanding of this existence is different from Einstein's understanding of the same existence (or the movement of more things).

    • blueprint  7 months ago

      I don't think I said anything about the lack of existence of complexity. But all those complex things operate by one very simple, fundamental principle, and among other truths we call that principle The Truth. afaict this truth is called a law and it can be found through logical derivations and proven by contradiction. (It has been stated repeatedly by different philosophers in history.

      By the way, you claim that the movement of things exists, but that is simply something you saw from your perspective without confirming the reality of that. Buddha would beg to differ given that according to him in scriptures, things were never born and don't decay etc.

      If we assume that anything was actually born, then I say that it operates by the law of cause and effect, and the theory of repetition. These two laws create all phenomena and all other laws aiui. they're very simple.

      And there is a difference between complexity of structures, and a given persons difficulty in understanding it. I do get the impression that you know this, but my point is that even what we call complex could be of the same difficulty to comprehend for someone who can see the universe whole. "for a real master of philosophy there is no difference in the difficulty of questions."

      if you still believe that I'm missing your point please tell me again, so we can confirm.

librasteve  7 months ago

this is a lie

  • metaesn  7 months ago

    Please understand the restrictions of Newton's Laws of Motion, many years ago, some people think they are right in every environments. My point here is it is difficult to get the truth for somethings. the title means proving everythings whether they are lies.

zsoltkacsandi  7 months ago

> and the descriotions of the same thing are different for different persons

When my son says, "I wasn't there" when the glass broke, it's not just a matter of differing descriptions, it's a clear denial of a fact. There are facts, and when someone deliberately twists or denies them, that's not just a different perspective. That's a lie.

  • metaesn  7 months ago

    You are right, for somethings, the truth is clear, but for other things, it is difficult to find the last truth, only reach its truth over time

    • zsoltkacsandi  7 months ago

      > it is difficult to find the last truth, only reach its truth over time

      The fact that is difficult to find out the truth, does not mean that something was or wasn't a lie. Paradoxically this is an attribute of a "good" lie: it is difficult to find out that it wasn't the truth.

  • monkeyelite  7 months ago

    I think this is a good example of a lie because you and your son both have a shared understanding of the world and he is deliberately saying something he does not believe to be true (that does not match his own internal recall of events).

    There is a physical component to this lie but it seems to me that the social part dominates.