Comment by Asafp
1 day ago
Almost none of what you wrote above is true, no idea how is this a top comment. Israel is a democracy. Netanyahu's trail is still ongoing, the war did not stop the trails and until he is proven guilty (and if) he should not go to jail. He did not stop any elections, Israel have elections every 4 years, it still did not pass 4 years since last elections. Israel is not perfect, but it is a democracy. Source: Lives in Israel.
Israel is so much of a democracy that netanyahu is prosecuted by the ICC court since almost a full year and still travels everywhere like a man free of guilt
Prosecution is not equal to being guilty. In fact, during prosecution, he is still presumed innocent, only a trial that comes after the prosecution can find him guilty. "Innocent until proven guilty" is a basic tenet of jurisprudence, even in many non-democratic societies. For a democratic society, it is a necessary condition.
That Netanyahu still walks free is a consequence of a) Israel not being party to the ICC, therefore not bound to obey their prosecutors' requests and b) the countries he travels to not being party to the ICC either or c) the ICC member states he travels to guaranteeing diplomatic immunity as is tradition for an invited diplomatic guest.
c) is actually a problem, but not one of Israel being undemocratic, but of the respective member states being hypocrites for disobeying the ICC while still being members.
Prosecution isn’t actually the issue, the ICC have issued an arrest warrant for him.
“All 125 ICC member states, including France and the United Kingdom, are required to arrest Netanyahu and Gallant if they enter the state's territory”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court_a...
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How is that related to the method of selecting the government of Israel?
Isn't that how most people who are being prosecuted behave, except those for whom the judge imposed a travel restriction?
The ‘war crimes of starvation as a method of warfare and the crimes against humanity of murder, persecution, and other inhumane acts’ sounds like something that warrants locking someone up pending trial as a matter of safety.
If he isn’t guilty, defend the charge.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court...
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I question the legitimacy of the ICC, considering their impartiality and failure to take action against Hamas
Except they have. They issued an arrest warrant for Mohammed Deif, the Hamas military commander who if arrested would almost certainly stand trial.
Of course that won’t happen now since Israel got to him first.
If you have no idea why this is the top comment then that explains so much. You say you live in Israel, I wonder how much of the international perspective cuts through to your general lived experience, outside of checking a foreign newspaper once in a while? I doubt many even do that.
Almost everything you said is technically true, but with a degree of selective reasoning that is remarkably disingenuous. Conversely, the top comment is far less accurate but captures a feeling that resonates much more widely. Netanyahu is one of the most disliked politicians in the world, and for some very good and obvious reasons (as well as some unfortunately much less so, which in fact he consistently exploits to muddy the water to his advantage)
From a broad reading on the subject it’s obvious to me why this is the top comment.
You think I live under a rock? I probably know more than you. I wrote facts, while you talk about "capturing a feeling". This is a top comment for the same reason people think AIPAC controls the USA or why the expulsion of Jews from Spain happened [1]. The fact that Netanyahu is disliked around the world (and even by me and many of my friends) does not change the nature of Israel being a democracy.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Jews_from_Spain
Israel is an apartheid state, many people living there can't get citizenship. Everything you call democratic there is not, then.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_apartheid?wprov=sfla1
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Well then which is it? Is the West Bank Israeli or is Israel illegally occupying and colonizing the Palestinian state? You can't have both when it suits you.
Israel considers Gaza and the West Bank to be part of its territory, the people living there since forever are then citizens. Simple second class ones, which is the definition of an apartheid.
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Israel is a democracy (albeit increasingly authoritarian) only if you belong to one ethnicity. There are 5 million Palestinians living under permanent Israeli rule who have no rights at all. No citizenship. No civil rights. Not even the most basic human rights. They can be imprisoned indefinitely without charges. They can be shot, and nothing will happen. This has been the situation for nearly 60 years now. No other country like this would be called a democracy.
Afaik those 5 million Palestinians are not Israeli citizens because they don't want to be, and rather would have their refugee and Palestinian citizen status. There are also Palestinians who have chosen to be Israeli citizens, with the usual democratic rights and representation, with their own people in the Knesset, etc.
And shooting enemies in a war is unfortunately not something you would investigate, it isn't even murder, it is just a consequence of war under the articles of war. In cases where civilians are shot (what Israel defines to be civilians), there are investigations and sometimes even punishments for the perpetrators. Now you may (sometimes rightfully) claim that those investigations and punishments are too few, one-sided and not done by a neutral party. But those do happen, which by far isn't "nothing".
It makes sense that people don't want to become citizens and legitimise the entity occupying their country and committing genocide, no?
> In cases where civilians are shot (what Israel defines to be civilians), there are investigations and sometimes even punishments for the perpetrators.
Obviously Israel doesn't consider children to be civilians
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gd01g1gxro
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Palestinian citizens in Israel do not have the same rights as the Israeli Jew, with more than 50 laws discrimination against them. They also face systemic discrimination and also you cannot marry between faiths, all the hallmarks of apartheid. Initially Palestinians within the Green lines were also under military occupation and only after 80% of the other Palestinians were either massacred or ethnically cleansed, so it was basically a forced acceptance. Israeli policy has always been to have a an ethnic supremacy for Jews, so the representation in the Knesset is tokenistic at best. If Israel decides to expel Palestinians in Israel, there's nothing they can do, its the tyranny of the majority.
Palestinians in the West Bank do not have the option of becoming Israeli citizens, except under rare circumstances.
Its laughable that when you say that there are investigations. The number of incidents of journalists, medics, hospital workers being murdered and even children being shot in the head with sniper bullets is shockingly high.
One case is the murder of Hind Rajab where more 300 bullets were shot at the car she was into. Despite managing to call for an ambulance, Israel shelled it killing all the ambulance crew and 6 year old Hind Rajab.
Another example is the 15 ambulance crew murdered by Israel forces and then buried.
Even before the genocide, the murder of the Journalist Shireen Abu Akleh was proved to have been done by Israel, after they repeatedly lied and tried to cover it up. Another case was this one, where a soldier emptied his magazine in a 13 year old and was judged not guilty (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/nov/16/israel2)
The examples and many others are many and have been documented by the ICC and other organisations. Saying that it's not nothing is a distinction without a difference
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> Israel is a democracy only if you belong to one ethnicity.
There are over two million Arab citizens of Israel. What ethnicity do they belong to?
The one that mysteriously don't fit in the bomb shelters https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20250624-arab-israel...
I've lived in several "top-tier" democracies and had limited or no voting rights because I wasn't a citizen. I don't think this is unreasonable (or unusual) from a definitional perspective.
A country who government was chosen by its inhabitants could be quite different. I know many states allow voting from abroad, but my home country doesn't and nobody ever questions its democratic credentials.
(I make no comment on the justice or long-term stability of the system in general or specifically in Israel, that has been done at length elsewhere.)
No, Palestinians are citizens, simply second class ones with less rights and more duties. It would be like if you were born in a "democracy" but weren't given some rights because of who you were born to. It's obviously very different from being a tourist in another country.
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Your comparison is absurd. We're not talking about small numbers of recent immigrants without citizenship. We're talking about 5 million people (out of only about 14 million living under Israeli sovereignty) whose families have largely been living in the same place for hundreds of years.
They live their entire lives in a country that refuses them citizenship, and they have no other country. They have no rights. They're treated with contempt by the state, which at best just wants them to emigrate. They're subjected to pogroms by Jewish settlers, who are allowed to run wild by the state.
This isn't like you not having French citizenship during your gap year in France. This is the majority of the native population of the country being denied even basic rights. Meanwhile, I could move to Israel and get citizenship almost immediately, simply because of my ethnicity.
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In Gaza the Israelis have tried to give them independence - the Palestinian Authority in the 1990. In 2005 Israel withdrew from Gaza but the locals elected Hamas in 2006 which is dedicated in it's charter to the destruction of Israel which makes it hard to live peacefully as neighbours. You can't really have it both ways unless you have a lot of military power. Either independence and live peacefully as neighbours or attack the neighbours and be at a state of war.