Comment by bayindirh
9 months ago
Latency for the most part. It's almost non-existent and has effectively no visible load on the system. Also, you can plug any advanced interface via USB or Thunderbolt and carry massive amount of audio data just by selecting that device from a list. It's simple, it's transparent, it's fast and it works.
While I agree that Pipewire works great and pretty transparently for single channel capture and multichannel playback, I don't know what happens when you add a 6 channel audio interface and start recording on all of them at the same time.
Then you should give pipewire a serious go with multiple channels. It's way better than MacOS stack which doesn't really do independent multichannel by default. There's an API for it that some paid apps use that lets you do it. Meanwhile pipewire just lets you connect whatever wherever. I managed with pipewire to get lower latency on Bluetooth headphones than MacOS allows at all.
What happens with 6 channels? You just connect them where you want and it works.
I'd happily do that, and give it a whirr. I have no qualms against that.
Unfortunately I no longer have my primary desktop (Linux) system, and no external audio interface to play with at the office.
If I can borrow something from my friends, I'd love try to give Pipewire another go.
Sounds like I need to borrow my friend's Rodecaster for a bit. :)
That's a bullshit myth. Actually, CoreAudio is implemented in such a way that the minimum latency is 2 samples when you can go down to 1 with some drivers on Windows.
Macs are "good" for audio, because audio people tend to do nonsense with their softwares (a lot of pirated stuff that they don't even know how to install properly) and macOS makes it harder to put the system in a problematic state.
But it doesn't have that many advantages in comparison to a well-managed system apart from some specific audio utilities (that can be quite useful/good, that much I can agree with).
In other words, Macs are good for noobs, and the stereotype of Apple users being pretty bad with computers is usually not completely wrong (the average Windows user isn't better really but they are not so narcissistic and arrogant about their choice of computers).
> But it doesn't have that many advantages in comparison to a well-managed system apart from some specific audio utilities (that can be quite useful/good, that much I can agree with).
> In other words, Macs are good for noobs, and the stereotype of Apple users being pretty bad with computers is usually not completely wrong (the average Windows user isn't better really but they are not so narcissistic and arrogant about their choice of computers).
There is extreme value in making the computer do something extremely well without having to care about "properly managing it", you are leaning towards a "No True Scotsman" situation, audio professionals might be noobs with computers, to the point where learning yet another skill just to have a functioning setup is not worth it if there's another solution on the market that doesn't require it.
The stereotype of Mac users being bad with computers is... Well, just a stereotype. The difference being: Linux requires you to be good with computers, there's no other option, if you aren't you simply cannot keep a well-managed system, that won't ever have mass appeal.
I remember the days when 1ms latency in Windows considered extremely good. Then ASIO came, and slapping that Red/Green logo meant any simple sound card get a 3x multiplier on their price tag.
So, having 2 samples of latency in most cases is way better than having 1 sample latency in some cases. Esp, for non-computer people, as you say.
Back then, on Linux, JACK provided a clunky setup, but a better experience latency/flexibility-wise w.r.t. Windows. Now Pipewire is probably way better (w.r.t. JACK), but I'm not recording anymore.
Mind you, macOS is not my primary OS of choice. I only prefer it for my portables because of the hardware it implies, and the OS's BSD heritage. On the other hand, I don't believe neither in "everybody shall know computers inside out", nor I stereotype people according the OS they choose to drive daily.
Both are bullshit, like you prefer to say.
I think you are confused, MacOS definitely necessitates specific kernel drivers to get the lowest latency possible and some other features. Every high-end audio interface has its own driver that you need to install just like on Windows.
Otherwise, you actually use the generic HID (Human Interface Device) implementation which has a 16bits/96khz sample rate limitation along with many other limitations, depending on variables (interface speed, specification etc.).
It's better than what Windows had by default back in the days but at the same time it wasn't THAT good. But the "genius" of it is that for most people it was a seamless plug-and-play experience since the vast majority of Mac users are actually amateurs dabbling in the stuff. So, for "basic" needs, it suffices to pick up a "good enough" interface, connect it, and you are on your way. But if you use a professional level interface, like something from RME for example, you will definitely need to install the drivers and configure the thing properly and it doesn't work worse on Windows. The "advantage" of Mac OS X was that you could potentially get away with a cheaper interface and use the good enough implementation instead of having to buy expensive hardware, but that's a bit of a lie/stretch because you are not getting the same quality/experience at all. But this is usual with Apple aficionados, they are very fluid with reality, distortion field is no joke.
Yes, Linux has become pretty good with audio, but realistically it's more trouble than it's worth for most people. Whether you buy a Mac or a Windows PC, the license cost of the system is pretty negligible but access to specific softwares and support is extremely important. This is actually, in my opinion, the single best reason to get a Mac for audio: all the indie software that you get access to, that are often extremely good and does not have true equivalency on Windows.
Of course, I don't think that people should know their computers inside-out, what I'm pointing is that in general Windows users get by just fine, sometimes doing mistakes or having trouble because of poor choices they misunderstood but they are generally very chill about it. Mac users on the other hand are almost systematically convinced that they use the best thing around and that they know better when in fact they are rarely competent enough to understand properly but have a very large ego.
Personally, macOS used to be my OS of choice and I think it still is very good in many ways. But it has also stagnated too much, made too "secure" and more closed like iOS and Apple's behavior in general is just abhorrent. The Mac is still good mostly because of various exclusive softwares that are very good (which is why Apple should treat their devs much better, they largely underestimate their importance) and the hardware for laptops that is indeed quite good and unmatched if we forget about value.
2 replies →