Comment by Veen
9 days ago
It's very difficult to build a growing economy when you have mass unskilled immigration combined with free healthcare and a generous welfare system.
9 days ago
It's very difficult to build a growing economy when you have mass unskilled immigration combined with free healthcare and a generous welfare system.
Growth is much easier with mass immigration than mass emigration, regardless of if those crossing either direction are skilled or unskilled.
And the UK welfare system isn't all that good. I'm a landlord, and at one point a letting agency told me they refuse to deal with anyone on the welfare system because it's simply too difficult to actually get the council, who are supposed to pay, to actually pay. The necessity for food banks is another big hint that the government system isn't covering basics.
And the UK healthcare system has for a while now only been free to UK permanent lawful residents and a handful of others: https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/visiting-or-moving-to-englan...
(As in: migrants will be asked to prove entitlement, it won't be assumed).
If you moved to the UK for work, you're paying twice for the NHS, because not only is it supposed to be covered by national insurance contributions, but there's also an NHS immigrant surcharge: https://www.gov.uk/healthcare-immigration-application/how-mu...
Immigrants can't claim welfare, beyond the tiny asylum seeker payment, and the healthcare system is dependent on immigration for staff.
States such as California were allowing them access to Medi-cal, their version of medicaid. Many get free housing- NYC entered into a $980 million dollar contract to house people in hotels.
Federally, no, they aren't getting assistance, but it's all a slush fund as money flows back and forth between local and the federal governments anyway.
California also has, like, the 4th highest GDP in the world. Take complaints about their money mis-management with a grain of salt - of course people from economically failed states like Louisiana and Tennessee are going to tell you California has all these problems. PS - I live in the South.
The US guarantees ER health services regardless of citizenship or ability to pay. They also get free public education (with all the burdens of being non-english speaking).
They pay taxes (in Texas) through gas, property and sales taxes which fund much of the state.
Yes, immigrants are a critical component of several industries like healthcare.
Legal permanent residency/work visas should be easier for skilled workers who want to work in high demand jobs. And all wealthy nations should be more wary of unlimited, unchecked economic migration by poorer populations.
(IOW it's complicated)
I think social media is at least as big a cultural weapon against us, and if I had to choose between deport/imprison a small number of business and political leaders who abuse that weapon or four million undocumented US residents, I would choose the former.
I'm confused, I thought this was about the UK, and the US only got brought up in the sense of people wanting to copy them?
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Total benefit in dollar value for a typical illegal immigrant in Los Angeles with a wife and three children
-------- Cash-like income
• CA Earned Income Tax Credit (CalEITC) 2,400 ‑ 3 qualifying kids and earned income around $20 k → ~$2 000 CA + $400 YCTC add-on.
• Young Child Tax Credit (YCTC) under age 6 $1,080
• County “Breathe” Guaranteed Income Pilot $1,000
• Child Tax Credit (federal, kids=U.S. citizens) $6,000
• CalWORKs Stage 1 child-care voucher (parent copay $0) $8,500
• Los Angeles County General Relief (“GR”, undocumented adult) $2,348/yr 221 × 12 ≈ $2 650; actual monthly household max 2 adults = $442 (LAC DPSS 2023 schedule). Family with kids rarely gets full GR cash, so book 50 % = $2 348.
-------- Food
• CalFresh for 3 citizen kids $8,940
Max allotment for 3 children household = $780 / mo × 12.
Housing-subsidy value (Section 8 Housing Choice Voucher)
• Local Payment Standard (3-br in Central LA, 2024) 28,640 FMR $2 655 / mo × 12. Actual voucher covers 26 600 after utility allowance; market-value differential is tax-free.
-------- Medical care (only the kids qualify under “Restricted Medi-Cal”):
• Children’s Medi-Cal (MC+) HMO PMPM $3,600 ~ $3 000 capitation + dental + mental health wrapped.
-------- Education / daycare substitutes
• State Preschool slots, 3-4-year-olds (county rate) $8,520 6.5 hrs/day × 180 days × $14.50/hr teacher-cost ≈ $8 520 “value”.
• Title-I supplemental services at public school $1,500
-------- Energy / utility
• LADWP low-income discount (ELECTRIC, $0.11/kWh credit) $720
• SoCalGas CARE discount (≈20 %) $240
-------- Transportation
• LADOT universal student pass (DASH), 3 riders $360
TOTAL ANNUAL BENEFIT VALUE
Cash/benefits truly delivered: $2 400 + 1 080 + 1 000 + 6 000 + 8 500 + 2 348 + 8 940 + 28 640 + 3 600 + 8 520 + 1 500 + 720 + 240 + 360 = $73 848 / year
Market-value package ≈ $74 k rounded.
Immigrants can't claim welfare in the UK. Visas are all "no recourse to public funds".
How does identity verification work for those if you can claim while being undocumented? How do you know the claimants are real at all?
1 reply →
Is this actually what a typical immigrant is getting, or did you just pull this straight out of your ass? Who is actually getting these benefits to this degree? Do we not understand that it's very difficult to apply for a lot of these and most people don't know how to do it?
Also, elephant in the room: California has the 4th highest GDP in the world. Clearly, what they're doing is working. So well that they provide what, 1.5x more federal dollars than they take?
I mean, Louisiana doesn't provide jack shit to nobody. And how's their economy holding up? Anybody check on them recently? Last I checked, despite providing fuck-all, Louisiana isn't even breaking even with federal dollars, let alone touching California's 1.5x ratio.