Comment by jimt1234
1 day ago
Seems I have to periodically re-post this old comment because civil forfeiture is still a thing, and it still sucks. Re-reading it gets my blood boiling. My ex's brother was a good guy; his life was destroyed because the Modesto Police Department (and the sheriffs) were crooked AF.
I've spent hundreds of hours in civil forfeiture court watching cases. It can be a real shitshow. The first thing to remember is that a lot of civil forfeiture starts before a court case is even filed.
In Illinois the district attorney will send you a notice saying they have seized your property and you have 14 days to dispute it in writing by filing a specific (confusing) type of form (which they tell you they will neither provide to you or assist you in any way to complete it). If you fail to notice the form, or if you can't figure it out, or file it late, then your stuff is gone. Dead. The form just means they now have to file a suit and serve you, and now the process starts a second, more complicated road where you have to go to court, file an appearance, potentially pay a lawyer, file motions and maybe go to trial.
99% of time once it goes to court the gov will sit down and have an informal negotiation with you to pay you not to go to trial on the case. The gov attorneys I knew all had an 80% figure. They would always start by saying "Look, we'll give you half your money back right now. I'll write you a check, this matter is over, you never need to come to court again." I would tip off everyone I could that the gov would go to 80% without a fight.
I've seen some funny ones. A dope dealer. They'd taken $150K in dope money. It was definitely dope money. But here they are telling him "Look, we'll give you $90K of it back right now, straight into your bank if you drop this. We'll also try to get you a year off your sentence too."
My ex's brother's situation was in the early-90s, when civil forfeiture was - well, I don't think the legal concept was new, but the cops sure acted like it was. They kept telling his attorney that there was no process to challenge the forfeiture, and the attorney seemed to confirm that. He spent countless hours just trying to figure out how to proceed in court.
I think at one point his attorney got a court to basically order the cops to return his assets, but the cops flat-out refused. I think that's when the cops came with the offer of about 10% of the value of the seized assets (around $50K). His attorney, a close family friend, advised him to take it.
My ex's brother was absolutely innocent. And the whole process broke him. He had to move him and his family back into his parents' house while the situation unfolded. And that's why he took his family to live in Mexico. It's such a shame, too, because last I heard he was doing really well in Mexico; he opened a bunch of automated car washes. So, it sucks that a hard-working, entrepreneurial dude like him took his talents to another country because the corrupt-ass local cops wanted free shit.
That is wild - I'm not a 'defund the police' person, but at times like this, reading this story, that I fully understand the intent. It isn't about being unpoliced or lawless, it's about rejecting the system as it exists today and building something better and new.
If you have experience of behaviour like this, I understand that leaning.
Given that Modesto is a Democratic Party stronghold since the 1990s, wouldn't defunding the Democrats be less destructive? If the government and their police are corrupt, are they going to stop terrorizing the community if there are no police at all? That's an absurdly ignorant position. Has CHAZ and Mexico taught us nothing?
The original comment talks about replacing it with something else. Forfeiture is something across law enforcement bodies, not something that one party does. Plus, I’m not exactly seeing police departments get staffing turned over every time a political party changes. I don’t know where you’re making that connection.
1 reply →
I understand that too.
But no matter what we do this is an unsolvable problem of policing/judicial system. There will always be people who are falsely accused/falsely convicted. Let's say less than 1%, as a hypothetical. Do we accept that due to that we might be reducing crime by a lot? That's a question society has to answer.
I think the best solution here is not focusing on policing/courts, but making sure that everyone in the society is content, so that they don't commit crimes. Happy people with resources a typical human wants probably don't commit many crimes.
Not to mention that a better paid public defender system (and courts) would help too. Cases are backlogged too much, and so on. Not to mention the abysmally low number of police per capita (compared to EU countries). Funding, funding, funding.
I'd be very happy with a happy/content society.
There are 3,144 counties in the US. Some of them in remote areas have a history of getting away with shakedowns. Places like Rawlins, Wyoming have probably had thousands of shakedowns since I-80 was built in 1956. Really a good idea to avoid those places at night.
It really is wild for me to think that I'd be at risk from the police like this, in any of the UK - but then again I'm a dull white guy.
I don't think the police have powers here to shake down anyone in this way (imprison maybe, but not shakedown like this).
Land of the free?
Let’s wait and see eh ? I don’t rule out anything in this country right now in the foreseeable future..
what on earth did you have in mind to pick rawlins? cheyenne, evanston, etc have made industry out of plucking out of state plates probably
Nothing but legalized thuggery.
ACAB, because non-bastard cops don't last long in the field. Cops that break the "thin blue line" and push back against this type of thing get ostracized.
That one bad apple done spoiled the barrel.
Crazy story. I believe you, the judicial system can be extremely vile. I once had to deal with an unfounded accusation, and it took me a while to clear my name.
I can see how people with little or no money could get dragged into it, their lives likely destroyed. No one really cares, which makes it even worse.