Comment by Dylan16807

5 days ago

Listening to other viewpoints is hard. Restating is a good tool to improve listening and understanding. I don't agree with this criticism at all, since that "prodigious intellect" bit isn't inherent to the term.

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Dylan16807

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throw4847285  5 days ago

I was being snarky, but I think steelmanning does have one major flaw.

By restating the argument in terms that are most convincing to you, you may already be warping the conclusions of your interlocutor to fit what you want them to be saying. Charity is, "I will assume this person is intelligent and overlook any mistakes in order to try and understand what they are actually communicating." Steelmanning is "I can make their case for them, better than they could."

Of course this is downstream of the core issue, and the reason why steelmanning was invented in the first place. Namely, charity breaks down on the internet. Steelmanning is the more individualistic version of charity. It is the responsibility of people as individuals, not a norm that can be enforced by an institution or community.

  • vintermann  5 days ago

    One of the most annoying habits of Rationalists, and something that annoyed me with plenty of people online before Yudkowsky's brand was even a thing, is the assumption that they're much smarter than almost everyone else. If that is your true core belief, the one that will never be shaken, then of course you're not going to waste time trying to understand the nuances of the arguments of some pious medieval peasant.

  • Dylan16807  5 days ago

    For mistakes that aren't just nitpicks, for the most part you can't overlook them without something to fix them with. And ideally this fixing should be collaborative, figuring out if that actually is what they mean. It's definitely bad to think you simply know better or are better at arguing, but the opposite end of leaving seeming-mistakes alone doesn't lead to a good resolution either.