Comment by the__alchemist
5 days ago
Looks like they're still only available in "Huge" and "comically oversized". I guess I can keep buying Pixel 4s until new ones (req for battery) are no longer available.
5 days ago
Looks like they're still only available in "Huge" and "comically oversized". I guess I can keep buying Pixel 4s until new ones (req for battery) are no longer available.
It's interesting how this type of feedback always comes up for phones yet smaller phones have an extremely hard time actually selling enough units to justify making more of them. It seems part of it may be folks remaining in this group seem much more willing to stick with old devices anyways, helping drive less priority for small sizes on top of already being a smaller market segment. Perhaps there are some other big factors beyond those two things too.
Apple said the mini iPhones underperformed, but they were not some sort of commercial failure. They sold millions of units. Numbers most Android OEMs could only dream of for a single flagship model. Current day Apple is all about optimizing and determined that still wasn't enough, and I imagine the manufacturing for small, specialized display panels certainly took a chunk out of those margins, so Apple decided to pull the plug.
Myself and the people who said we wanted a smaller phone may be a vocal minority but we did buy the small phone when we were offered it. After I used the 12 mini for 2 years, I bought a 14 Pro since no mini was offered in the 14 generation, but I returned it a week later cause it was too big/heavy and bought a 13 mini. These days I'm using a 16 Pro since no mini is offered and the titanium did help a lot with the weight issue, but if they brought back mini phones I'd happily sacrifice the camera for a reasonably sized screen.
The number of people who aren't vocal tech people who actually want a smaller phone is a very small part of the market. In HN-like circles they're a notable minority but among the general population they are a smaller percentage. Especially when you consider huge segments of the market where your phone is your only computing device: a smaller phone is a massive anti-feature in large parts of the world.
Plus almost everyone who says they want a smaller phone will just buy a larger one anyway.
The sales numbers just don't justify it. Like people who pine for manual transmissions: they're vocal in car forums and publications but they're a tiny minority and making one is a money-loser even in the sports car segment.
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Interestingly I have seen a high share of iPhone Minis in my tech-affine bubble around Berlin / Amsterdam etc. - also my grandma switched from SE to 13 Mini.
Also bought used iPhone SE (2016) in 2019 and 2020 - both time from (UX) designers - but the same people also ride bicycles, trains - or if car, really reflect their user requirements - be it a small EV or a van for vanlife.
Average consumers just buy the largest, most marketed (high margin) or "whatever the neighbour has" option - aka SUV or Pro Max.
iPhone 14 Pro = Weight 206 g (7.27 oz)
iPhone 16 Pro = Weight 199 g (7.02 oz)
The weight difference (7 grams) seems negligible
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> yet smaller phones have an extremely hard time actually selling enough units to justify making more of them
I don't buy this. The iPhone 13 Mini all by itself sold 6 million units in a year. That's about half the rate of Google's entire Pixel lineup. The market is small, yeah, but it definitely exists. I think a company could quietly make a high quality, straightforward, small Android device with maybe every-other-year hardware updates, and run away with a whole corner of the market all to itself.
You can't just look at units sold, you have to look at net units sold because the version of the product existed.
For example, if 5.9 million of those 6 million people would have bought the larger iPhone model anyway, then you didn't actually gain much by offering the Mini unit.
I have no idea what those numbers are, though.
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Smaller phones tend to have a lower price point.
If they don't offer a smaller phone, you'll eventually buy a bigger phone. Once you are in camp big phone, you'll probably be back on the 2-5 year device treadmill. And you'll be spending more on the big phones.
Apple is in a continuous state of not giving their customers what they want.
A convertible Macbook with a touch screen and dual MacOS/IOS personalities would sell out. They will never make it because no one will ever buy an iPad again.
A high quality TV with Apple TV built in at a premium but reasonable price would sell like hotcakes. It would compete with Apple Cinema displays, however.
A basic "good enough" 5 inch phone for $499 would also sell fast.
Apple won't do these things because you'd be happier but spend less.
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This thread seems to have a lot of people that love the iPhone mini (me included - I still use my 12 mini).
But from all reports that you can find with a quick search it seems clear that it did not sell well by Apple standards.
I would love them to bring it back and I’m not sure what it is about the Hacker News crowd that makes this phone over-represented. Maybe the tech crowd also uses laptops more, so we think of phones as our “small device” and use other devices more as appropriate?
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The problem is for many years now the smallest phone available has been getting larger and larger. This has lead small phone enthusiasts to cling to their old phones as long as they can stand it until they are forced to step to a larger model.
Bigger phones encourage more user engagement and more screen space to show ads.
Smaller phones are used by people who use it less.
I have only anecdotal data, pretty sure google has the analytics to find that out.
I put Bloomberg TV on the other day, just because it's one of the easy to access channels on a Roku I was setting up, and that experience makes me agree with your statement about space to show ads. It wasn't full of ads (yet?), but the tiny actual video surrounded by huge amounts of other content reminded me strongly of the TV future shown in Idiocracy.
https://www.bloombergmedia.com/press/bloombergtv/
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I'm exactly that person. Always running an older device and lamenting the lack of small devices. Unfortunately, the mainstream wants big devices, so we all get big devices.
I recently had to replace my Pixel 7 Pro and went with the Galaxy S25. My hands are much larger than average and it is amazing how unweildy I find the Pixel 7 Pro is in comparison to the S25 even though the size difference doesn't seem that big when compared side to side. Makes me wonder how people with normal sized hands deal with the massive phones.
Who's actually making 5.5" phones to prove that though apart from the iphone 13 mini? These chinese phones often tend to be 4" instead of 5.5" and often come with with massive downsides like awful cameras or being very thick
Nobody is saying they aren't the least popular, but there are certainly many who would still buy them.
They probably figure if they stop making them then most people will reluctantly move to a bigger model.
Probably. I don't expect the market to cater to me when I don't cater to it. The only reason I ditched my iPhone 5 in 2019 was the carrier entirely stopped service for it. I don't like my new 12 mini as much.
I don't see what I feel is the obligatory "I want a small Android phone!" post here yet: https://smallandroidphone.com/
Ultra principled users rarely if ever buy new devices or have predictable purchasing patterns in almost any way. Trying to appease this market is mostly a fools game, as they have learned.
I think it's like how everyone smart knows that small hatchbacks are the only cars worth buying, and everyone smart also knows that only idiots buy new cars. So, all new cars are made for idiots and no small hatchbacks get made :)
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It’s a HN meme at this point. For as long as I can remember, almost every single phone announcement on this site inevitably gets a bunch of comments about how it’s too big and how a smaller version would sell like hotcakes. You would think that phone manufacturers would have figured this out by now, but what do they know.
Lol yep. They always seem to think that the companies haven’t considered this properly and are missing out on some imagined huge market haha
I replaced my 4a (which is not particularly small) after Google nerfed the battery into oblivion, but every once in a while I get it out of its drawer and am always immediately struck by how much better the form factor is. Using a modern phone with a 6+ inch screen feels like trying to tie a knot with one hand.
I have this experience… until I turn it on and start to try and type stuff on the tiny keyboard or watch stuff on it again. Then I realise I’m glad I moved up a little
I agree with you, but I like the reminder that I probably shouldn't be using my phone for whatever I'm doing anyway.
If I'm at home, I should make the small effort to get a tablet or a laptop. If I'm out, should I just set a reminder and do it later and listen to something instead?
I realise that for many people, that time might be their only time available for doing whatever they were going to do, but on the other hand when I look at what other people use their phones for when they're out, it rarely looks important to me. Even the stuff people are doing for fun doesn't look much fun. Definitely not compared with the people who have also lugged a Switch/e-reader/actual book.
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My 4a didn't have the battery issue due to GrapheneOS, however, it the screen died recently (twice), so I got a pixel 9 with GrapheneOS. But yeah, it is uncomfortable to use the phone with one hand - I miss the small sized 4a.
On the other hand, it would be fun to explore these on device SLMs on a more capable phone with extra ram/storage.
twins!
I miss it so much. I bought a replacement one after it got cracked, only to have the battery AND Sim get nerfed a month later. Putting a custom ROM seemed to work for a while, and then it just got too unstable with sim card turning off randomly and silently. So now it sits in a drawer and used as a kids camera and I am so jealous of them. My google pixel 8 is bigger, but somehow nowhere needs as performant for my needs (camera + voice calls is basically it).
I heard about this but for some reason my 4a was never affected. Still works great and I still use it daily.
Oh man, I'm still using my 4a and am quite afraid of what I'll do once it goes caput. There's essentially no real replacement. The S23/24 are kinda okay, but the custom ROM support is meh. Pixels are unbeatable in that regard... It's a shame
I went for an 8a in a compromise of weight and size Vs an-actually-modern-phone.
After 2 weeks I was completely comfortable with it.
Check gsmarena's 'Compare' tool to find what works for you.
Really wish they would at least make the Fold a reasonable size when closed. It would scratch my smaller phone itch, and offer a larger screen when I actually do want one. Currently it’s “comically oversized” when folded, and literal tablet when open.
I just went from a Z Fold 5 to a Z Fold 7 and I hate it for this exact reason.
Z Fold 6 and earlier were slim, one handed use phones when folded, small tablet when opened.
Now it's just a regular phone, and a medium tablet when I open it.
First phone I've ever regretted upgrading to.
Consumers have spoken though. Same as dropping the stylus...
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I'd hoped others would copy/iterate the Flip form factor. A friend has one and it does feel great. I just don't get along with the Samsung software suite.
I'd buy a Flip as soon as I can install GrapheneOS on it.
With the popularity of the Flip I can only hope I won't have to wait too long.
I've enjoyed using a Moto razr+ 2024. If you're interested in trying one check out used devices, their value seems to crater. I think I got mine for ~$300 last year on eBay (while it was still the current gen device)
Did you get a chance to try the original Pixel Fold? Definitely not small like an iPhone 13 mini, but smaller than contemporary devices by a good bit!
Me crying for a newer Nexus 4, the best device in terms of quality/price ever made by Google
That phone had the worst camera I've ever used. I loved having it because it was XDA custom ROM-friendly, but good lord, that camera....
Best phone I've ever owned and it's not close. Every phone since then has been a compromise, to the point that (in a sunk cost fallacy kind of way) I've just quit caring about phones and just buy whatever the cheapest available unlocked device is. I run them into the ground (way past the end-of-service date) because I know the next one is going to be worse.
The Nexus 4 was a nice phone but I thought the battery life was bad and it also ran hot.
My Moto-X was truly next level. It was oled and could do always on display that didn't need to power the blacks pixels on the screen. It was the first phone to do this. It has voice recognition for unlocking (getting info that you couldn't when the phone was locked). First to do this too since I believe it uses dedicated hardware at the time. It also knew when I was driving to unlock the phone for voice commands also. It was small.
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The Nexus 4 camera was rubbish and the GPS was rubbish. It could barely ever get a decent lock meaning navigating with it was a awful. I was so glad to replace that phone.
I loved my nexus 4! It's a pity that I at one point could not use it anymore because the updates made it unusable slow.
I agree, but I got the Pixel 5 instead; the 5 is actually smaller while the screen size is larger due to the curved screen corners. It also has a fingerprint sensor, unlike the 4. That being said, I still miss the squeeze-activated flashlight on the 4.
There are no alternatives. S25 is 6.2, and Pixels put the Pro/best version in 6.3, while on Samsung you get a step up to 6.7 and 6.9. Much better specs on almost the same size.
s25 is super manageable, it's the most comfy phone I've had since ever.
I keep thinking of how the Nexus 7 has a 7.02" screen. And how modern phones tend to be 6.1 - 6.9". But never quite 7!
It's not really comparable because the Nexus 7 has a 16:10 screen. Looking just at the size in inches without the aspect ratio is really only part of the picture. The Nexus 7 is like twice the width of a phone.
Dont worry theyll all be pushing 8 now that the barrier has been broken.
It's sad what they did to the Pixel 4a's battery, because that phone was otherwise comfort perfection
Still using mine on the stock rom. Mine was luckily not effected by the battery problems. Such a good phone.
I still carry my Pixel 5 for this reason. 2 replacement batteries in now and I have a spare sitting on a shelf. That said the Pixel 9A is tempting as it's not much larger than my Pixel 5. I hate that the finger print readers have moved to the front though. The sensor on the back of my 5 is perfectly postioned and also acts like a little track-pad for opening the notification tray. It was a perfect design IMO.
> a spare sitting on a shelf
Does that work for batteries? I feel like unused batteries tend to become unusable batteries.
Sorry, my wording was misleading there. A spare Pixel 5 on the shelf so if something happens to this one I have an immediate replacement. I pop it onto a charger every couple months to prevent the battery from going too low.
I've had a "spare" smartphone kept in a drawer for a year and when I needed it it was impossible to charge and I've never been able to wake it up.
Would be better in a drawer in the refrigerator. Calendar aging for batteries is mostly about the temperature and storage SoC, which should be in the 30-50% level.
Replying to my own comment as I can no longer edit. To clarify, I have a spare Pixel 5 sitting on the shelf. Was inexpensive to purchase a backup a few years ago off of a local classifieds site, still new in box.
Agreed on battery. I started with a 6a and only ever had the fingerprint in the front. I thought it's well designed and works well (as long as I stick to office job activities.. as soon as you start doing handy works it has its issues.. same for Px7).
You just blew my mind on the pixel 3 with the alternative way to open the pulldown menu.
I agree that I prefer the fingerprint sensor on the back. Very convenient and natural for the pocket grab and unlock maneuver.
I think they moved the fingerprint sensor because of all the magnetic mount and covers acting as a stand being trendy these days.
i would still use my px5 if it were not for 2 stupid problem: The promixity sensor does not work, thus the phone still think it's in pocket and won't wake the screen. Another problem is my power button has been missing.
Just bought a used iPhone 13 Mini last week to replace my 12 Mini. This has to last me...apparently until the heat death of the universe.
I love my 13 mini but its battery is just too anemic. Slapping a MagSafe battery on it defeats the purpose of having a small phone. My 16 Pro lasts me all day, but I absolutely hate using it, as I don't do very much with my phone in the first place. I feel stuck.
Why does it run out so fast? I thought the 13 Mini had pretty good battery life? They say it is much better than my 12 Mini which I do fine with in one day. What's your battery health at?
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Pixel 5 is about as big, but yes, that's as far as it goes.
Unfortunately that goes for virtually any phone on the market... Sad.
I just want a 5.5" phone. I'm not even asking for one of these tiny 4" phones like some people, just slightly smaller so that it can be used one handed
I'm afraid you might be right.
Former user of 3a, I upgraded to 6 but it was way too big and heavy, and had a weird mass balance.
I'm now on 8 and it has perfect size and weight IMO (using it with a recommended Spigen case).
Looks like 10 is +17g heavier than 8 and 1-2 mm bigger. Not as big as 6 but almost as heavy.
https://m.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=13979&idPhone2=...
The only way Google phones keep up with the battery lives of iPhones is to have larger batteries. iPhone gets the same battery time with a much smaller battery.
Unfortunately I think this means Google will keep having to sell huge phones for a while
Samsung S25 is just 3 mm bigger than Pixel 4a. Is that too much of a difference?
I got a Motorola Razr 2025 Ultra. You can use it closed. Open it is narrower but taller than a Pixel. It fits in my pocket easily.
The size is about what every manufacturer settled on, and what most people want, it is unfortunate that smaller phones are not an option but it doesn't sell.
What bugs me however is that thin body with a huge camera bulge. Do anybody actually like that? It looks ridiculous, and the bulge defeats the point of having a thin phone. If you can't make the camera thinner, make the phone thicker, there is plenty of things you can do with more space: bigger battery, better speaker, more powerful vibration, more robust, etc...
I dont really buy the issue with "there's no market" just look at the pc market: isnt there are market for convertibles, laptops, tablet+keyboard, different OS, all sorts of sizes... how different is the android phone ecosystem?
There is a market, it is just not lucrative enough for big players to take it.
There is however a company that caters to these niches: Unihertz
The have small phones, massive phones with huge batteries, rugged phones, phones with keyboards,...
From what I have seen, not great on the software side though, and they have entry-level specs, with prices to match. It is a Chinese company.
I get, I guess it is the "comically oversized"phone and I consider it to small. So...
I really liked my Pixel4 but in 2025 the hardware and software are getting too out of date.
Still does everything that I want it to and the photos are still excellent. I don't think I'm missing much.
Same, it's still pretty fast here. Not sure what I'm missing
Until I purchased a Pixel 8a, I thought the same thing.
I discovered that all the newer pant models that I purchased have bigger pockets, so that's not a problem anymore.
I just hope that all the newer body models I purchase have bigger hands.
https://static.scientificamerican.com/sciam/cache/file/095D6...
Shot of humans from the future.
I have probably normal hands, and I feel that the pixel 8a is perfect, and that I could use a bigger one too.
You can choose the size of the keyboard, if this worries you.
"Just buy bigger pants" is the 2025 version of "you're holding it wrong"?
No, I simply noticed that all my very old pants (that I don't use anymore), have very small pockets, and that all the new pants have very big pockets. My opinion on small vs big screen is all based on that.
That doesn't solve the weight problem.
Modern phones weight the same as the old ones...
A couple of days ago, I walked 20.000 steps on a mountain trail, and I didn't notice a problem with my pixel 8a in my pants' pocket. Holding it is not a problem too.