Comment by Aerroon
6 months ago
How do you know that it has had an overwhelmingly positive impact? Can we, for example, see a marked increase in PISA scores for Australia from after the ban?
Or is this one of those "I hate phones, therefore banning them must be good for kids" things?
These are the key findings from the UK research which was part of the reason we started banning phones in schools here in Denmark.
> our results indicate that there is an improvement in student performance of 6.41% of a standard deviation in schools that have introduced a mobile phone ban.
> Finally, we find that mobile phone bans have very different effects on different types of students. Banning mobile phones improves outcomes for the low-achieving students (14.23% of a standard deviation) the most and has no significant impact on high achievers. The results suggest that low-achieving students are more likely to be distracted by the presence of mobile phones, while high achievers can focus in the classroom regardless of whether phones are present.
https://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/dp1350.pdf
I believe OECD and Pisa results have also pointed towards banning as a net postive since their 2022 report.
I think it's fair to say that it's not a "black-and-white" thing. As the research points out, digital devices aren't the only factor in the equation. I believe OECD research has also found that using a digital device with a parent can be a benefit while using it alone will most certainly be a negative for children aged 2-6. I'm sure you can imagine why there might also be other factors that make a difference between parents who can spend time with their children and those who can't.
Aside from that there are also benefits from digital devices for students with learning disabilities like dyslexia. In most class-rooms this can be solved by computers + headphones, but for crafts people (I'm not sure what the English word for a school that teaches plumbers, carpenters etc. is), having a mobile phone in the workshop can often help a lot with insturctions, manuals and such.
So it's not clear cut, but over all, banning phones and smartwatches seem to be a great idea.
6% of a standard deviation sounds like very little to me, but it's hard for me to grok what that actually means.
California GPA average is about 3.0 with 1.5 standard deviation. A 6.4% SD improvement would be a 0.1 point improvement in GPA. Certainly not an overwhelming result, compared to the subjective reactions how phones and screen are “obviously” destroying kids lives/attention spans/ability to hold a conversation, etc.
On an IQ test for example that would be just under 1 point of difference.
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> I'm not sure what the English word for a school that teaches plumbers, carpenters etc. is
"vocational school"
Given that teachers are no longer competing for student attention in class, that is one single and quite important positive which doesn't require an academic study and referencing to demonstrate.
I'm not sure what you were hoping to achieve with the request for evidence, but what you're asking is not yet subject to a longitudinal study. The move has certainly been praised by educators, and that should be enough given it's the first or second year year of implementation in many cases, and what they are advocating for isn't a social taboo, nor draconian.
But phones shouldn't be competing with the teacher during class in the first place!
Are we going to draft laws to ban fiction books from school because kids might be reading books during class? Because I literally saw that happen when I was in school. Obviously unrelated things to the class shouldn't be used during class, but these phone bans go beyond just the classroom.
I ask for evidence, because all the evidence I've seen on it has been effectively nothing. The studies are vague, get weak results or draw conclusions that aren't supported by the study. Eg there were some Spanish regions that banned phones in school. Soon after they scored higher on PISA, this was naturally used to support the ban. But the next round they scored lower than before the ban.
Banning phones in schools seems almost entirely to me about "kids these days are ruined". Phones are just the easy culprit to point to. Meanwhile phone bans do infringe on the liberties of the kids. You are taking something away from them.
Meet kids who have smartphones in school. A lot of them aren’t able to maintain eye contact in a conversation. It’s a remarkably jarring change that looks like it will wind up stunting the development of low-income kids for a generation.
I wasn't able to do that either, and smartphones didn't exist back then
Folks on the spectrum are different in a way I can’t quite explain. I’m talking about full-blown can’t have a conversation or express an interest in anything.
The iPad kids are more prevalent and highly recognisable. They’re also highly concentrated in the lower and lower-middle classes. (The country’s richest communities and private schools are banning devices in schools.)
There are neurodivergent people who have a low threshold for how long "normal" eye contact lasts. Using smartphones is also an excellent excuse to avoid eye contact.
Basic common sense? We are dealing with CHILDREN IN CLASSROOMS here. Leaving aside the obvious psychotropic properties phones and social media have on people of all ages, in what universe can preventing children from diverting their attention from live classes ever be good?
>We are dealing with CHILDREN IN CLASSROOMS here.
No, we are not. The post I'm replying to is talking about banning phones in schools entirely, not just during class time. (Why else would the implication be about kids sneaking phones into bathrooms?)
I would also like to point out that children who grow up without using technology will be bad at using that technology. We already have a generation of kids who suck at using computers. Will the next generation be the same way for phones too? Who are we building all this digital infrastructure for then? Look at the older generations and how helpless they are with technology. That's what we're going to get with kids who don't use technology growing up.
There is an entire generation of people out there who are currently directing technology that they didn't grow up with. Stop grasping for straws.
What sort of argument is that? Anybody who lived long enough anywqhere saw many times what a cancer screens are to kids and their development, the smaller the worse. You can't make any sort of strawman out of this topic, its proper cancer.
If you want to measure something for this measure happiness or strength of social circles. Good luck with that.
Then it should be extremely easy to demonstrate strong positive results from these phone bans. But we don't see them!
>What sort of argument is that? Anybody who lived long enough anywqhere saw many times what a cancer screens are to kids and their development, the smaller the worse. You can't make any sort of strawman out of this topic, its proper cancer.
That's not science, that's a demonstrably false assumption that everyone thinks smartphone usage is bad for kids.
In my experience with kids and smartphones, kids of the young generation (gen Z) are way better informed (and less brainwashed) than kids of their parents' generation were, whose only access to information about the world when growing up was through the captured, centralised legacy media.
Using their phones while in class makes them more informed?