Comment by logicchains
20 days ago
Anyone even remotely privacy or security conscious needs to vote with their wallet in protest and stop buying Android phones, otherwise it's only a matter of time 'til Google bans side-loading and it becomes impossible to buy a phone that can run any kind of anonymous or end-to-end encrypted communication software.
Stop buying Android and what? Buy an iPhone that's even more locked down or live like an outcast that can't access essential services? Because those are the realistic options.
For years I've been buying middle-of-the-road Android phones because they provide pretty good bang for the buck, but if I can't use a computer I paid for however the fuck I want, I'm just going to start getting the cheapest crap I can get away with and use it as little as possible. "Vote with your wallet" doesn't have to mean total abstinence.
I think getting a flagship device that's a few years old probably makes for a better experience. I check the LineageOS supported devices list, then search eBay for something from there.
> live like an outcast
in all things. I would encourage you and everyone who reads this post to stare down this option with realistic consideration. In a society this broken, it is the solution to more and more things. To checkout, to accept the hard mode because to pick the path of convenience is to be exploited.
Again, and again, and again.
I've been doing it. That's why I'm vegan.
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Flip phones can access essential services just fine, if some business or government office is only allowing something to be done via smartphone app, that’s a problem.
A problem for who? Go ahead and raise it, I’m sure the government office will get right on fixing it.
>live like an outcast that can't access essential services?
I don't own a smartphone and I am happy as ever. I used to own one a while back, but it wasn't worth the effort and the rage when it was slow.
If a service can be accessed only with a smartphone, I complain (which is of little use).
Do you not have to use a 2FA app for things like banking? In Singapore, they are phasing out 2FA options other than the banking app. The banking apps only work on iPhones and Google-approved Android phones. It's pretty bad.
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It really isn't that bad. I've never owned a smartphone, and can do everything I need through websites and the occasional phone call.
What if people stopped buying brand new Android phones and instead bought used ones and then installed alternative Android versions and app stores.
Can't access banks, ticket systems etc. unfortunately we are in the era of tightened screws, the freedom is running out :(
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Buy Apple; the point is to hurt Google. If enough people do it, Google might reconsider. Show them that the open ecosystem is the only value Android added, and if they refuse to bring back the open ecosystem then their platform will slowly die. Won't be long until Google's as locked-down as Apple at this rate, so all Android gives you is a power-hungry OS that protect your privacy even less than iOS does.
Buying closed stuff to show we want an open ecosystem?
At this point, I believe the most effective ways one can help with this is:
(1) advocacy - it's slow and difficult, but having people at least agree / be familiar with the idea that closed stuff is bad is a good first step.
Open ecosystems can't work for the general public if it's trapped in closed networks that won't work on anything else than the two big mobile operating systems, so making people start using open chat apps and such will help a lot. It'll take years, but so be it. It's worth it I think.
(2) helping improve the more open stuff.
I think Linux mobile for instance is a potentially viable alternative in the medium term for at least the basic use cases: Calls, SMS, GPS / Maps, Signal, photos. All this has no reason not to work with some polish. I daily drove Linux mobile 4 years ago for a year. The main thing I'm missing is good hardware for it, and a lot of polish but nothing impossible. Yeah, indeed, no payment with the phone (Google Pay / Apple Pay). But it's still possible to use the physical cards and not use the phone for this.
You've got to be kidding. Doesn't work, Apple is even more locked down than what this article announces. No sideloading whatsoever, signature checks ala Play Protect are mandatory and cannot be switched off, no alternative app stores, etc.
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Not sure why this is downvoted. The entire value proposition of Android is the semi-open OS. For things you can’t do with Apple devices, you use the myriad of Android devices out there.
A locked-down Android is pointless.
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Utterly pointless.
Banking apps, messaging apps, streaming apps, even video games all want locked down devices. They will use hardware cryptography to discriminate against us and refuse service if they can't cryprographically prove we're using a corporate owned device.
Naughty user. Looks like you've been tampering with your device, installing unauthorized software and whatnot. Only money laundering drug trafficking child molesting terrorists do that. I'm gonna have to deny your request to log you into your bank account.
I'm curious what you think the alternative is, because Apple is definitely a lot worse, and we all know they're very much a duopoly.
BTW, all the GrapheneOS, etc. are still Android phones.
I'm curious if GrapheneOS or other custom Android builds would be able to avoid these restrictions reasonably.
Obviously this is going to impact the supply of apps, since the market share of custom Android is smaller than even the market share of people willing to sideload or use an alternative store on a mainstream Android phone. Many developers might quit the game.
The problem with custom ROMs is that many government, banking, and similar apps don't run on them without workarounds. Some of those apps also consider this as a TOS violation as well.
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Looks like they can avoid these restrictions:
https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/115090818389369737
> "GrapheneOS doesn't include Google Mobile Services and the requirements for certification aren't relevant to us."
GrapheneOS uses a sandboxed version of Google Play Services, not the GMS certified devices they mentioned in the article.
I had a Jolla phone on my hands the other day and I must admit this…
SailfishOS is pretty nice
I might get one next
Buy Xperia 10 III while you still can. It's the best SailfishOS phone at the moment.
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It's really nice when you first use it but if you have to use it as a daily driver it's pure pain. Rather go for graphene.
The alternative is just Apple; if Google loses enough users they might reconsider. Essentially the only real advantage Android had over Apple was being a more free platform/ecosystem; if they're going to do away with that, then they should be shown that this means they'll lose a lot of users.
Even with this change, Android is still more free than iOS by far.
GrapheneOS is a beautiful stop-gap, but there are real bona-fide Linux smartphones out there. To be clear, there are not many, the hardware often isn't great, the software often isn't great. PinePhone and Librem come to mind.
Cell carriers will just start requiring the attestation as well. And eventually, even an internet connection will - wifi routers will have to attest to ISP equipment, etc.
The final phase is "AI" monitoring everything you do on your devices. Eventually it won't just be passive, either, but likely active: able to change books you read and audio you listen to on-the-fly without your consent. It will be argued that this ok because the program is "objective".
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I've been keeping an eye on FuriLabs (Furiphone). They maintain FuriOS - Debian with an Android kernel. Has a container for running Android apps. Price is reasonable though I don't know how it'll be affected by tariffs in the US. It's tempting.
https://furilabs.com/shop/flx1/
I really wanted to like Librem and almost bought a phone until I saw this video by Louis Rossmann: https://youtu.be/wKegmu0V75s?si=NzevsJgHD188bRkT
In addition to the PinePhone and Librem 5, you can also put postmarketOS on some faster Android phones like the OnePlus 6T.
https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/2020/introducing-precurso... This is the most secure phone that has been made recently.
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>real bona-fide Linux
Android is decades ahead of that in security, functionality, utility, devex, and design. It's a fools errand to try and modernize that, over building on top of AOSP.