Comment by dns_snek
8 months ago
Exactly as predicted [0] and ahead of schedule. I didn't think they would be so bold while the EU investigations are still pending.
Can we now revisit the arguments that people were making in those threads to defend this?
Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems entirely reasonable to me to have different models for an ecosystem and market.
Android exits, it's relatively open. I can download an APK and easily install it on my device (unless this changed since I last did this).
Apple is a walled garden. That's both a gift and a curse. I see a lot more spammy low-quality apps on Android, but I also have more choice. I prefer Android for mobile and Mac for desktop.
As an aside, any time I've seen the state intervene in affairs like this it has made my experience as a user worse. I remember something about Google can no longer "favor" their services. So for instance, if I search for an address, it can't show me Google maps because it theoretically harms all the fledgling map companies. But now it's just more clicks for me. I don't care about competition, I care about the best product. If I search for an address I want google maps. If I search for a video, show me YouTube. And if Google fails to deliver the best product, I'll switch.
It's no different than going to a restaurant and them serving only Pepsi products.
> I don't care about competition, I care about the best product.
Competition is how you get to the best product. Lack of competition leads to malaise of product improvements as the market dominators are owning the space and happily exert their power over people.
> It's no different than going to a restaurant and them serving only Pepsi products.
There are two viable players for the average Joe in the phone market. There are I would guess 200-300 restaurants in my not so big town.
The number of choices matters a lot. If there were only two real option for restaurants around me, I would hope the management does not decide to be evil and lower food quality, jack up prices, or collude to only offer specific food while the other restaurant does not offer.
Also, in the restaurant example, we always have the option to buy our own food and cook at home. So to match the phone market situation, imagine cooking at home is illegal, and the only food you can eat is from two restaurants.
> Competition is how you get to the best product. Lack of competition leads to malaise of product improvements as the market dominators are owning the space and happily exert their power over people.
Competition means differentiating your product. You don’t have competition if both products are the same.
Apple is trying to differentiate by offering a curated experience. Google is trying to differentiate by offering less curation and more customizability. Both are valid.
It would be bad for competition if iOS and Android were just copies of each other. That would be malaise.
> Competition is how you get to the best product. Lack of competition leads to malaise of product improvements as the market dominators are owning the space and happily exert their power over people.
I think the malaise is when you require every company to take the exact same approach.
Let two companies take different approach. One is walled garden and the other is bazaar. I wish we had more walled gardens personally. I'm tired of wading through hundreds of results in Amazon through shady third party sellers. At this point I go to Best Buy, knowing that they won't sell me absolute garbage. Curation is very useful.
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> It's no different than going to a restaurant and them serving only Pepsi products.
I don't think that accurately depicts the situation.
> Apple has threatened to remove creator platform Patreon from the App Store if creators use unsupported third-party billing options or disable transactions on iOS, instead of using Apple's own in-app purchasing system for Patreon's subscriptions.
This happened because 5 years after Patreon published their app, Apple decided they were now due a 30% recurring cut of "indie creator" revenue. And that's ignoring that they did this while under court order to allow external payment options. And we've seen them try to force IAP purchases and subscriptions into WordPress, to Hey, and other apps too.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apple-says-patreon-must-switc...
It seems ridiculous if you think about it. Imagine you're running a market and as part of that you allow vendors. The vendors have to pay some percent of sales to you, either credit card or cash. And then you start selling things in crypto thinking you can save on the market cut.
It's their market. No one is forcing you to participate. But if you do you should have a good faith effort to abide by the rules. If not, bow out. If enough people bow out then he market is no longer the best market and they will lose to competitor markets.
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> I can download an APK and easily install it on my device (unless this changed since I last did this).
It changed with Google's announcement yesterday.
> I can download an APK and easily install it on my device (unless this changed since I last did this).
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45017028
> I don't care about competition, I care about the best product.
You can’t have the best product if there’s no competition.
> And if Google fails to deliver the best product, I'll switch.
You won’t if there’s nothing to switch to because due to monopolistic practices no other service was able to survive.
> Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems entirely reasonable to me to have different models for an ecosystem and market.
The practice of charging different prices for the same digital good depending on the buyer’s country is generally called international price discrimination (or geo-based price discrimination). Just so you know.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/08/google-will-block-si...
> Android exits, it's relatively open. I can download an APK and easily install it on my device (unless this changed since I last did this).
It didn't yet but it will change next year. All APKs will have to be signed by Google then.
They aren't going to listen unless execs start going to jail.
Who precisely should go to jail in this particular case?
Well, pick any of them, it'll work
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All the EU based ones, immediately, and then Tim Cook.