Comment by amluto
1 month ago
I sometimes contemplate that this sort of incidental ToS should be 100% unenforceable.
Here’s what I mean: suppose I want to order a cup of coffee at a cafe. I’ve made a choice to go to that cafe, and it’s at least generally reasonable that the cafe and I should agree to some terms under which they sell me coffee, and those terms should be enforceable.
But if the cafe requires me to use an app, and the app requires me to use a Google account, then using the app and the Google account is not actually a choice I made — it’s incidental to my patronage of the cafe. And I think it’s at least interesting to imagine a world in which this usage categorically cannot bind me to any contract with the app vendor or Google. Sure, I should have to obey the law, and Google should have to obey the law, but maybe that should be it. If Google cannot find a way to participate without a contract, then they shouldn't participate.
I might even go farther: Google and the app’s participation should be non discriminatory. If the cafe doesn’t want to sell me coffee, fine. But Google should have no right to tell the cafe not to serve me coffee.
(For any of this to work well, Google should not be able to incorporate its terms into the terms of the cafe. One way to address this might be to have a rule that third parties like Google cannot assert any sort of claim against an end user arising from that end user’s terms of service with the cafe. If Google thinks I did something wrong (civilly, not criminally) in my use of the app, they would possibly have a claim against the cafe, but neither Google nor the cafe would have a claim against me.)
>One way to address this might be to have a rule that third parties like Google cannot assert any sort of claim against an end user arising from that end user’s terms of service with the cafe.
Or just require retail businesses to accept cash. Which many jurisdictions have done.
Problem solved.
That doesn’t help if you need to use an app to order.
I don't know about you, but I don't have my device super-glued to my hand. In fact, if I'm going out to run errands in my neighborhood, I often don't bring such a device at all.
If I walk into a cafe (which is what GP was talking about), I'm going to (horror of horrors!) speak to the nice person standing behind the counter to ask them to make me my coffee.
I'm certainly not going to go full on passive aggressive and stand in front of the person taking orders and place my order on an "app."
In fact, if a retail establishment attempted to require that, I'd just leave.
Which I've done several times at restaurants who, when I ask for a menu, am informed that I should "scan the QR code" on a label stuck to the table with my phone to get the menu.
No thanks.