Some foreigner came into their country and tried to 'illuminate' the 'unwashed' masses via tearing down propaganda and was promptly thrown into some hellhole of a jail.
Seems to me like a normal thing to have happened. By the standards of the Global North, that is.
Doesn't seem meaningfully different from today's USA.
The way I read it is he was taking a poster home as a souvenir. An incredibly stupid thing to do, but I feel like being tortured to death for the amusement of people (presumably?) is somewhat excessive.
The most plausible explanation that those people who escaped NK were sentenced for something else and use excuse of watching foreign films to look good to Western researchers.
I believe that media landscape is restricted in NK, but getting a death sentence for a watching movie? No way it is possible.
Why do you think that is the 'most plausible explanation'? NK meets the simple test for evil dictatorships: do they need to use fences to stop citizens from leaving? Yes, NK does exactly that.
I wonder why NK doesn't pay "fake" defectors to create counter-propaganda.
Well, that's a silly joke. Yet, the fact is that regime has implemented new laws to strictly regulate citizens' access to SK/Western TV shows.
Nor does it make any effort to present its own narrative to the world by allowing people to freely share some TikTok clips showing them enjoying domestic content about their supreme commander over shitty foreign Netflix videos. Why? Because no way it is possible.
Look at the Soviet Union at the height of Stalinist oppression in the 1930s. Having the wrong book (not even necessarily a Western book but even a Soviet book that is no longer in good graces) could be a trip to the Gulag which for many was a death sentence.
A lot of it was driven by quotas that the police had to meet.
How many times have Western intelligence services claimed that the Kims had killed one of their relatives or some high rank politician only for the person to reappear a few months later?
I really don't know, can you share some times they claimed definitively that it happened ?
It's usually claimed to "be believed to have murdered X" - His brother for example.
But Kim himself has admitted to murder so it's not really some 'exaggeration' [0].
So unless you have something that would confirm otherwise, which would make interesting reading I will have to take my grain of salt from what we do already know.
There is just a lot of bs being spread about NK. Westerners, for example, genuindely believed all koreans had to get a haircut that is approved by the government.
I'm not even saying this country is not paranoid, but its nearly not as bad as everyone is imaging, and frankly, considering what Americans have inflicted unto the korean people, its fairly understandable.
I am sure the parents of Otto Warmbier [0] could disinfect your disbelief in the harsh light of their reality.
0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Warmbier
Ok, so let me get this straight.
Some foreigner came into their country and tried to 'illuminate' the 'unwashed' masses via tearing down propaganda and was promptly thrown into some hellhole of a jail.
Seems to me like a normal thing to have happened. By the standards of the Global North, that is.
Doesn't seem meaningfully different from today's USA.
The way I read it is he was taking a poster home as a souvenir. An incredibly stupid thing to do, but I feel like being tortured to death for the amusement of people (presumably?) is somewhat excessive.
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The USA would never have a foreign national executed over a sign...
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The most plausible explanation that those people who escaped NK were sentenced for something else and use excuse of watching foreign films to look good to Western researchers. I believe that media landscape is restricted in NK, but getting a death sentence for a watching movie? No way it is possible.
Why do you think that is the 'most plausible explanation'? NK meets the simple test for evil dictatorships: do they need to use fences to stop citizens from leaving? Yes, NK does exactly that.
[dead]
I wonder why NK doesn't pay "fake" defectors to create counter-propaganda. Well, that's a silly joke. Yet, the fact is that regime has implemented new laws to strictly regulate citizens' access to SK/Western TV shows. Nor does it make any effort to present its own narrative to the world by allowing people to freely share some TikTok clips showing them enjoying domestic content about their supreme commander over shitty foreign Netflix videos. Why? Because no way it is possible.
Look at the Soviet Union at the height of Stalinist oppression in the 1930s. Having the wrong book (not even necessarily a Western book but even a Soviet book that is no longer in good graces) could be a trip to the Gulag which for many was a death sentence.
A lot of it was driven by quotas that the police had to meet.
Me too. I don't think they need a reason to execute a person...
It certainly serves a purpose to have a reason, to make people fearful.
People are more fearful when there is no reason, when it is arbitrary or capricious.
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You find them to be, do you have any insight that would help us understand your point ?
How many times have Western intelligence services claimed that the Kims had killed one of their relatives or some high rank politician only for the person to reappear a few months later?
I really don't know, can you share some times they claimed definitively that it happened ?
It's usually claimed to "be believed to have murdered X" - His brother for example.
But Kim himself has admitted to murder so it's not really some 'exaggeration' [0].
So unless you have something that would confirm otherwise, which would make interesting reading I will have to take my grain of salt from what we do already know.
[0] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54291550
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how many NK defectors support the narrative of the NK government? How many corroborate the western reports?
I grew up in Eastern Europe.
Yes, in the height of terror - that is what communists would do. Having a wrong book would mark you as an enemy of state.
Or look, even Cambodia - even if how much they were communist first, or nationalist first is debatable - mere glasses would mark you for death.
There is just a lot of bs being spread about NK. Westerners, for example, genuindely believed all koreans had to get a haircut that is approved by the government.
I'm not even saying this country is not paranoid, but its nearly not as bad as everyone is imaging, and frankly, considering what Americans have inflicted unto the korean people, its fairly understandable.
Oh I'll take the firsthand reports of escapees over your thoughts on the matter, any day.
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