Comment by cft
15 days ago
"Best among the imperfect choices"?
What's wrong about the current situation? Why imperfect?
I have had Android phones starting from G1, and never had any problems with them, that I could install any APK that I wished on my own hardware. There's nothing imperfect for me, as a user. What's "imperfect" is that there are apps like ReVanced and PipePipe that deprive Google of the advertising revenue. But that's imperfect for Google, and perfect for the user. Just charge me 30 bucks for Android OS instead.
Spreadsheets are a fundamentally important tool—the original "killer app" for personal computers such as cellphones, and the best way that has been found so far to put computational power in the hands of end-users. Last I checked, there was no spreadsheet in F-Droid, largely because it's a relatively small ecosystem, and most Android users still aren't using F-Droid. Instead they are subjected to the outrageously abusive apps that fill the Play Store, as described for example in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45411897. And many Android phones ship with non-uninstallable malware and shovelware. Backing up an Android phone without a Google account—indeed, even activating an Android phone without a Goolge account—is challenging. From my point of view, these are imperfections.
> Spreadsheets are a fundamentally important tool
It's nice to know that you use spreadsheets all the time.
I use them rarely, and often end up regretting that I didn't write a real program instead. And I'd definitely never see myself using one on a phone; it's too painful to type, and the screen is usually too small.
I'd guess that maybe one percent of mobile phone users have spreadsheets of any kind installed, or would want them. Maybe.
What I'm getting at here is that you seem to have a pretty skewed idea of "fundamentally important".
Admittedly an awful lot of mobile users do have a lot of game and eye candy apps that have no F-Droid counterparts. And some users have professional apps that also don't have F-Droid counterparts. But spreadsheets aren't the center of the Universe.
As I showed in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45413633, which I hadn't posted when you posted your comment, about 10–25% of mobile phone users have the Google Sheets app installed, because it has over a billion downloads. So it seems like your atypical personal experience is leading you into orders-of-magnitude errors.
I also use spreadsheets rarely, most recently three weeks ago, and often end up regretting it, but I do occasionally find them very valuable. I would find them even more valuable if I didn't know more powerful programming languages, which presumably is what you are alluding to with "write a real program".
I agree that cellphone screen input methods are clumsy. On the other hand, I've written probably ten thousand words of prose on this one, plus a fair bit of Python, Lua, and C, so a few spreadsheet formulas would hardly be an obstacle.
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> Spreadsheets are a fundamentally important tool—the original "killer app" for personal computers such as cellphones
I do not agree with your supposition. Like the parent using the G1 as I did (and still have it), never used a spreadsheet app on any of my many, many phones both personal and work. I am/was a systems engineer by trade.
> Last I checked, there was no spreadsheet in F-Droid
The most popular viewer is the LibreOffice one[1], which can handle ODS and XLS (amongst many others) formats. You may have meant editing/creating which I agree they're not around. See item (1) above though.
> largely because it's a relatively small ecosystem, and most Android users still aren't using F-Droid
Or possibly, a large number of users simply do not need or use generic spreadsheet apps on their mobile devices, which is why I disagree with your opening statement as I am a direct counterexample.
[1] https://f-droid.org/en/packages/at.tomtasche.reader/
I think they just got carried away with the term "personal computers such as cellphones". I believe they were referencing the common recognition of VisiCalc as one of the first "killer apps" for personal computers.
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> Backing up an Android phone without a Google account (...) is challenging
Off topic, but I think it's impossible, rather than challenging?
Unless, maybe, if you clone the phone to another physical phone?
I haven't done it successfully, but I might just be ignorant.
Oh, you opened a can of worms... In terms of user experience Android is garbage. It forces on you features you cannot remove unless you break into the system (which is kinda illegal or, at a minimum, voids your warranty).
Stuff like "do not disturb" that turns on accidentally and makes me miss calls, and is impossible to remove. It's impossible to remove a bunch of trash from the lock screen, and with some workarounds sometimes only the picture is removed, but it stays interactive or affects other widgets, like the audio player, for instance. Lockscreen randomly trying to dial random numbers, especially if I don't answer an incoming call. Also, taking screenshots randomly, so after almost every run I have to spend some time deleting these screenshots.
Now, when it comes to the subject in OP, it's not really about Android, it's about Google's policies around developers and app store. The whole idea behind Android is very similar to MS Windows: oppress the user because the system provider "knows better". Make choices on user's behalf, prevent users doing from useful things jut to blanket "secure" them from some imaginary threat. Manipulate users into doing a thing that's harmful for them, but beneficial for the system provider.
So, the app store managed by Google is one example of such policies. Google doesn't have the best interest of the user in mind. They are maliciously complying with regulations that want them not to abuse their users. They check the applications submitted to the app store, but they check them for the wrong things. Just to say they did.
I ended up using an FTP server app from F-Droid and a file manager from F-Droid because the stuff that was available for the same functionality found in app store is some atrocious predatory trash. It doesn't matter if I can afford to buy an app. Whatever I tried was just garbage. Once you get used to freedom and the approach of free software after you've spent some time with eg. Linux, using Android will make your blood boil because of how hostile both the system and the programs written for it are.
A bit of devil's advocate here but the current situation is that there's sideloadable malware around.
As well as malware, and millions of apps that will syphon every data they possibly can, on the Play Store