Comment by JumpCrisscross
4 months ago
> do not understand this idea that it's an obvious red line
ALPRs are not an obvious red line. Federal police ignoring court orders with microphones on street corners is.
4 months ago
> do not understand this idea that it's an obvious red line
ALPRs are not an obvious red line. Federal police ignoring court orders with microphones on street corners is.
The premise of these cameras is that the operating LEOs control sharing. If you assume the federal government is going to ignore those controls extralegally, then ALPRs themselves aren't acceptable. The red line you're proposing here isn't coherent.
Again I want to be clear that there's a difference between "bad idea" or "bad public policy tradeoff" and "red line". I believe it's pretty clear that when something is a live controversy with no clear winner in a municipality like Oak Park, whatever else it is, it isn't a "red line".
> I believe it's pretty clear that when something is a live controversy with no clear winner in a municipality like Oak Park, whatever else it is, it isn't a "red line".
Shouldn't it be the opposite? A thing is tested when it's put under stress. It's a red line because it's not to be crossed even when the temptation to do it increases.
To me, calling something a "red line" implies that there's near-universal agreement that something is bad (or, at least, on the proper weighing of the underlying values: here, freedom from surveillance vs. law enforcement).
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And the problem with that premise is the company clearly does not honor the local controls. Ask Evanston about it. I don't understand why you're defending Flock so hard when you can get the same product from e.g. Axon without all the we're-smarter-than-you bullshit from the vendor. Not all ALPRs come with Flock baggage, but you seem to treat them interchangeably.
This isn't responsive to the point 'JumpCrisscross was making.
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> premise of these cameras is that the operating LEOs control sharing
The practical effect is most of them have national sharing turned on.
For me, the red line was Texas extrajudicially enforcing its abortion laws through Flock. It’s illegal. It’s invasive.
It's illegal in Illinois. And when the scandal happened, we weren't impacted, because we'd already disabled out-of-state sharing many months prior.
Which was an annoying lift, because Chicago is part of a tri-state area (Wisconsin and Indiana); there are de-facto suburbs of Chicago in other states, and we had to say "no sharing without a phone call authorizing it".