Comment by b_e_n_t_o_n
4 months ago
I haven't written much Java but I am learning Kotlin and I really appreciate the language and the whole JVM ecosystem. Yeah yeah, Gradle is complicated but it's waaaaay easier to figure out than my adventures with Cmake, and when I read Java code there is a certain comfort I feel that I don't get with other languages, even ones I'm experienced with like Go. Java feels a bit like a stranger I've known my whole life, same with Kotlin. Perhaps despite all its flaws, there is a certain intrinsic quality to Java that has helped make it so popular.
I think you might be getting at one of my favourite features of Java. It's a pretty straightforward simple language. It deals with complexity well by not being too clever. I think Go has that too, except for its error handling and perhaps channels
Maven was peak Java build tool. I detest Gradle. Some people just hate XML enough to doom us all.
Can't speak for everyone, but I think a substantial part of the shift from Maven to Gradle was the ability to write build scripts: you didn't need to write a plugin. I'm hoping that Maven (and Gradle) can take advantage of JEPs 458 and 512 to allow people to write build scripts for that Java projects in Java.
- https://openjdk.org/jeps/458
- https://openjdk.org/jeps/512
Ant had the ability to write build scripts. It's part of what made Ant such a terrible build tool and IMO it's what makes Gradle such a terrible build tool.
Maven's requirement that you write plugins meant that you had to have a decent understanding of the conventions that Maven brought to the table before you could inflict some monster on the world.
In Gradle you can do something quick to get your idea working how ever terrible it is and however much it defies convention or breaks the expectations of anyone coming to the project later on.
I wouldn’t say I’m a fan of maven, but it is absolutely one of the best build/dependency tools I’ve ever used despite its warts.
So many things, even if they came much later, are somehow much worse.