Note, GrapheneOS seems to have been able to secure partner access to Android early security releases, but this comes with the cost that the source used to make these special "01" builds is private until general availability. This might not be a tradeoff that LineageOS is willing to take; GrapheneOS has provided the option on a recommended opt-in basis.
The bad thing in general is the dependence on Google policy for all AOSP distros. Joining those programs might long term worsen the situation.
IMHO, it could be worth the fight if GrapheneOS could win their (rather legal/lobbying) battle to obtain play integrity certification by following security closely (which is a joke IMHO because EOL phones with not updates for years also get integrity). Google releasing easily diffable security only bytecode sets, seems like a security nightmare for everyone else.
All of those distros suffer from the reliance of Google to release anything, so they in one way or the other they play the game. Particularly Lineage heavily does 'self-censoring' to comply without much benefit IMHO. We really would need e.g. does not even include the keys for providing alternative web views or the ability to switch the location provider. While google has those capabilities, they only support services sending data to their own servers.
I used lineage as my daily driver since the CyanogenMod days and the HTC desire, but switched to a Google Pixel a few month back, because I felt I had lost the play integrity fight and although my great Redmi Note 10 Pro was running other like a charm thanks to lineage and the device maintainers (Daniel and Aryan), I personally could not invest time and cognitive capacity anymore.
More and more device manufacturers are locking down their bootloaders again. I hope someone can break the momentum and finds a way to break the OS duopoly.
We have the sources for the patches which is how they get applied the source tree. We have both the regular releases and security preview releases so it's easy to see what was changed since it's a small amount of code: currently 59 security patches for Android 16, similar to the size of typical Android security patches, although 1 was already public elsewhere so we applied to the regular release.
> does not even include the keys for providing alternative web views or the ability to switch the location provider.
Trusting third parties with this is a privacy and security risk. GrapheneOS uses our Vanadium fork of Chromium for the WebView and LineageOS has their own builds of Chromium for it. We provide our own network location implementation using a semi-offline approach based on Apple's location service. We plan to add fully offline support for both Wi-Fi and cell tower network location via downloading regional databases. SUPL is essentially obsolete for GrapheneOS since all supported devices have PSDS and the network location service is already used to help accelerate GNSS when enabled, so we could just remove that instead of making our own SUPL service based on the same data.
We're making progress in fighting the Play Integrity API but governments and regulators move slowly. Courts also move slowly but we haven't brought it to a court yet and would prefer not having to do that. We would greatly prefer if Google worked it out with us and other AOSP-based operating systems but it doesn't appear there's much chance of that ever happening. It's strange since we were never hostile towards them, earned them a lot of money via hardware sales and made substantial upstream contributions.
A major Android OEM is working with us because unlike Google, they're able to see the significant benefits of working with us and selling a lot of devices based on it once they have official GrapheneOS support. Google could have worked with us and others instead of the path they're taking. They could have sold a lot more Pixels by opening up the devices more and improving them. Instead, they'll sell a lot fewer Pixels than they could have as one of the main reasons people buy them goes away. A lot of people who bought them and used the stock OS still bought them because they knew they could get first class support for another OS. They're shooting themselves in the foot. Our userbase will be buying devices from another OEM instead once they meet our requirements.
The preview patches are source code patches we're applying to the source tree used for the regular GrapheneOS releases. We have the sources for the patches, but we need to wait to the embargo end date to publish the security preview patches as source code. We keep the patches in a dedicated Git repository with a script for applying them to the source tree from the regular release. Each security preview release is tagged there, so we can release the sources which were used as soon as the embargo date is reached.
No, GrapheneOS is partnered with a major Android OEM and has security partner access through them. Our security preview releases are in full compliance with the terms set by Google. It's permitted to ship the patches early with delayed source releases for the patches on the dates the embargoes end. The current patches are from the November 2025, December 2025 and January 2026 bulletins. We've shipped the full set of currently available patches for those 3 months.
I don't know the exact terminology, but they described what they currently have as security partner access or at least advanced access to security patches. To my knowledge they are still working on full partner access that would grant them timely access to the AOSP source code.
I'd love to see a hybrid phone with an embedded stock android for banking, pay and government apps and a regular LinageOS or Linux OS that runs on a separate partition/hw/vm.
Like "gluing" two phones together - just better ;)
It would be great to run an open OS but having to carry a separate phone for banking/paying is not really a viable option.
This is on point and it's sickening what Google is allowed to get away with. Even with the recent crackdowns on Google by various governments, they are steadily locking down Android, so even if you paid for your phone, whatever apps that you want to put on it will need their seal of approval.
The excuse of "security" or "it's for the children" is complete BS, because it's about "them" having unwanted and total control.
They were both budget brands with niche offerings. For most people, the source of the OS is immaterial. There's very little competitive advantage to selling a forked OS, and a rather large downside in terms of support costs.
I'm mostly happy with my GrapheneOS device - but it is absolutely not suitable for mass market.
GrapheneOS is partnered with a major Android OEM and working towards some of their future devices meeting our requirements and providing official GrapheneOS support. It won't be the main operating system, but it will be an officially supported option. Their current devices don't meet our requirements, but they're working towards meeting those for future devices.
All my banking apps works fine under lineage. The only app that does not work is McDonald. I have not investigated very far, maybe it is possible to make it work.
It's great to see Android TV mentioned. Has anyone managed to build a freedom-respecting TV box with Lineage? This is a much needed alternative to "smart" TVs and streaming boxes filled with spyware and arbitrary restrictions.
Looks like LineageOS supports various iterations of the Nvidia Shield device. What I'm wondering is whether this new Catapult launcher is compatible with Android TV that comes with off the shelf Smart TVs. I've grown accustomed to the default screen on my current TV's in-built Google TV (not Android TV, although I'm not totally sure of the difference), but it does enforce at least one additional click to get to the actual functions I, and the family, use it for.
Gonna check out Catapult right now.
Edited to add note: It looks as if the latest Nvidia Shield device requires soldering a USB port onto the mainboard of the device[0]. That probably excludes a decent percentage of people who may otherwise be happy software hacking a device.
Nate Johnson, one of the devs at LineageOS, maintains some official and unofficial builds. You could go from scratch using a Radxa SBC, or try to get an older streaming device (like one of the previous versions of the Chromecast). Some of these older devices even got Widevine DRM still working after installing LineageOS, if you want to use a streaming service.
I'd be curious to see how that works out. One of the main advantages of the Pi is that it supports HDMI-CEC. However, I am seen reports that it struggles with 4K playback at more than 30fps. Even 60Hz isn't great if you have a modern TV and want to use SteamLink to play Steam games running on your PC from your couch.
You don't "streaming services" when you can open a Web browser and stream from the high seas, or download NewPipe from F-Droid, or download Jellyfin and stream local content.
Over recent user privacy (and security) crackdowns from Google, these OS upgrades seem to be becoming more appealing. Can anyone comment on what differs Lineage from something like GrapheneOS?
That is not to say you have no freedom or extra features with Graphene, or no security with Lineage, it’s just what either project has very clearly as main target.
I do miss some features since switching to GrapheneOS (customizable on screen nav, volume rocker for cursor control), but I’m very happy with stuff like sandboxed google play services.
GrapheneOS provides a lot of features not available in LineageOS. Our focus for is privacy, security and replacing Google apps/services. The features we add aren't only privacy and security features. We provide our own network location and geocoding support. Local text-to-speech and speech-to-text are being developed. It also provides a bunch of assorted features such as forcing the availability of VoLTE, VoNR, VoWiFi and 5G.
https://grapheneos.org/features is an overview of what's provided compared to AOSP but doesn't cover everything yet, especially recent additions.
I have used both, and I can personally use my smartphone properly with both.
GrapheneOS is more strict about security, making it more secure but less accessible (at the moment you can only run GrapheneOS on Pixel phones).
I am happy with GrapheneOS' policy: that's exactly why I use GrapheneOS, to the point where I bought a Pixel just for GrapheneOS. Many people complain about GrapheneOS not supporting other phones. IMO it's the other way round: the other Android manufacturers do not support GrapheneOS.
If you really want GrapheneOS to lower their security in order to run on another phone, what you want is actually LineageOS.
GrapheneOS is partnered with a major Android OEM we're working with towards their next generation devices supporting GrapheneOS. The devices will meet all of our official requirements listed at https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices rather than lowering these standards. We kept the minimum support time at 5 years since we know providing 7 is difficult but all the rest should be possible to provide via a Snapdragon 8 Elite Gen 5.
There is little point in fortifying the front-door when the backdoor is wide open.
The hardware itself should never be trusted when being produced by a vendor like Google and cannot be verified on the component level. Their business model completely revolves in reducing your private sphere and sell it to others.
Never use google hardware if you are serious about security.
Graphene is probably better on the devices that support both (Pixels), but since hardware support is so (intentionally) limited, it kind of a moot point. Also the Graphene community is kind of obsessed with "security" and does not seem to place much emphasis on freedom/hackability.
Why the scare quotes? Graphene’s focus on security is legitimate and well founded. They are the only phone OS that is consistently safe from hacking by the likes of Cellebrite long after all other androids have fallen.
A few years ago, Lineage was just a customizable tinkerer friendly AOSP. It served as a base for a lot more Android distros. It was just a smoother Android variant with features like double tap on the notification bar to sleep, better integrated root support, more built in theming options.
Graphene OS was only available for a few Pixel Devices whose source was fully available and mainly focused on security features like improved permissions and more anti tracking features.
To give an example, a company I worked for shipped it's phones with a Lineage OS base with a few patches from Graphene OS to replace default ntp and connectivity check servers.
GrapheneOS is a privacy and security hardened OS. The third party comparison table at https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm focused on privacy and security provides a good overview. The GrapheneOS features page at https://grapheneos.org/features provides an overview of many of the changes it makes compared to standard Android.
That's only because Pixels are the only devices meeting the hardware security and update requirements. GrapheneOS has an OEM partner working on meeting our requirements for some of their future devices. That's how GrapheneOS is able to provide our security preview releases with security patches from 3 months of upcoming Android Security Bulletins.
If you want to check supported devices together with some sustainability criteria and other ROMs, I just updated https://www.sustaphones.com/ to reflect that LOS update.
Well, this looks nice. Tons more devices than Graphene or Postmarket supported.
Which hardware should one get to run this? Which hardware is reasonably ethical? Perhaps the Fairphone 5? There are lots of choices from Motorola and OnePlus but I know nothing about them. (Well I remember the old Moto up to Y2k.) Not sure where to buy them.
With reasonable ethical you indeed might want to look into the Fairphones. The Fairphone 6 was reviewed as being a nice improvement over the 5. I'd expect LineageOS to land on that device some time in the future, after all the prior three models are supported. You could wait for that, or settle for the 5.
If you want something cheap and easy instead of the Fairphone, the Motorola moto g 5G (2024) looks good. Supported by LineageOS 23.0 and also on the list of calyx devices, https://calyxos.org/docs/guide/device-support/#modern-device..., with vendor security updates till 2027 (though calyx is on pause, that's me only hoping the device list will still apply afterwards, would be an interesting additional option). Not available in my market though, or just hard to find with that name given the other similarly named motorola phones.
OnePlus 12R is one of the newest phones that is supported, and will get vendor updates until 2028. No headphone jack and no sd card slot though.
Ethical does not describe the OnePlus and Motorola phones. But anything used could be judged as such, since you then at least did not add to the garbage pile of unrepairable devices directly - but they are a bit new for that maybe. On the other hand, vendor security updates don't exist for many of the older devices (especially those from Motorola, they churn out new devices by the dozens and almost immediately abandon them), and the new EU regulations that force vendors to provide security updates only apply to new devices.
The LineageOS port for the FP6 is already well-underway and close to daily-drivable AFAIK. Support for iodéOS has also been announced as planned within 2025, which seems like a good alternative to Calyx.
The reason GrapheneOS doesn't support these additional devices is because they don't provide proper privacy/security patches or security features. Pixels are currently the only devices with proper alternate OS support with a reasonable level of security. That's why we have an OEM partner we're working with towards their future devices meeting our requirements. The hardware requirements are listed at https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices. Pixels provide 7 years of proper updates while other devices do not.
Fairphone 4 and Pixel 6 were released in October 2021. Fairphone 4 is on the soon to be end-of-life Android 13 and already end-of-life Linux 4.19 kernel branch. Pixel 6 is on Android 16 QPR1 and the Linux 6.1 kernel branch since it moved to it from Linux 5.10. Fairphone has 1-2 month delays for partial security backports to older releases and years of delays for major OS updates. This does impact another OS supporting the hardware. Fairphone 5 is using the Linux 5.4 kernel that's end-of-life in December 2025 with no plans to migrate to a new kernel. Fairphone devices are missing the security features required by GrapheneOS too including but not limited to MTE (hardware memory tagging) which is the basis for Apple's recent launch of Memory Integrity Enforcement but has been more heavily used by GrapheneOS since October 2023.
GrapheneOS is a much different kind of project than LineageOS and other AOSP-based operating systems. The privacy and security focused comparison table at https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm shows that quite clearly.
Yes, I run Waydroid (LineageOS in a Linux container) in an Ubuntu x86_64 VM on my home PC using their default installation method, plus libhoudini via https://github.com/casualsnek/waydroid_script to be able to run arm64-only apps, and waypipe the UI to my (Linux) phone that is connected to my home LAN via Wireguard.
I used to run Waydroid directly on the phone, but the phone has terrible specs and Waydroid had become frustrating in the last few months, when it updated its LineageOS image to a new Android version. It would frequently crash or pop up an infinite series of "app is not responding" dialog boxes, even though whatever app it was was responding just fine. With my new VM + waypipe setup, Waydroid launches in ~10s instead of ~3 minutes, and everything is reasonably snappy despite now traveling over the network, so I'm happy.
The requirements are monstrous: 300GB storage, 32GB RAM. My everyday working laptop has a 240GB SSD. I've build the kernel, Firefox, and the heaviest packages which I use from sources with a fraction of those resources.
I can't even fathom what the build system is doing in order to require this amount of storage.
Waydroid runs Lineage, so it's certainly possible, but I don't know how easy it is on something like QEMU.
That being said buying a phone compatible with Lineage or Graphene (only Pixels for the latter) is well worth it. This will probably become even more important in the future if Google bans sideloading or complies with idiotic laws such client-side scanning of messages in some markets.
With Titanium Backup unmaintained, Neo Backup [1] works pretty well. It has some potential issues with restoring wifi/bluetooth/sms as those were still experimental, last I used it. But sms at least worked. I'd suggest a 2nd backup app of those, just in case.
Every version of Lineage has rooted ADB accessible in the developer options. If you want root for apps, you must load Magisk. If root is important to you, this is your OS.
Lineage puts out all the patches that they can, every month, unlike OEMs. If current patches are important to you, this is your OS.
Lineage allows you to run it without any Google closed source code.
These are some serious advantages, depending upon what you are trying to do.
I use LineageOS on all my devices (it's actually my main criteria when buying a phone) to mainly install apps from F-Droid without relying on the Google Play Store.
It has the same familiar look and feel on all devices and by experience is way snappier than the original ROM.
Got a Xperia Z1 in 2013. Sony stopped updating it at some point in 2014-2015, which is stupid, but the hardware was still like new (which is the great thing about Sony phones) so I rooted it and managed to install it. Can't remember if it was already named "LineageOS" or "CyanogenMod" at the time. However, it lasted with me until nov. 2020 when I dropped and the screen cracked, made it to be changed but the replacement was kinda bad so used it as an excuse to get a 1ii.
I did the same with this "new" phone, that is going to be 5 years with me - since also got that only-two-years-of-updates thing, threw LineageOS on it and it's going as new.
So as I said the last time I saw a post about it in here, thanks to LineageOS I can use a phone for way more than they are set out to be forgotten. It's a great project and it's really sad Google are making things harder for them for the sake of "security".
I immediately put Lineage on all my devices. In fact, I only buy Android devices that Lineage supports. It's a uniform, degoogled Android experience that just works.
If your phone is more than a few years old it likely doesn't get updates from the manufacturer anymore. LineageOS will get you to the latest Android with security patches. Same sort of deal as with OpenWRT for a router really, you get all the features and security patches but at the loss of the firmware that the device came with and its propriety enhancements.
I have a Samsung Tablet and Samsung's version for said tablet is a giant mountain of crap, full of bloatware, so I installed LineageOS on it. Also my old phone and my old old phone run LineageOS because I'm just logged in to Google on my {current_phone}.
I ran LineageOS on my Moto X4 for many years. It was much faster without the OEM Moto and carrier apps, and was faster again when I installed it without Google Play Services. Same thing with an old Kindle Fire tablet, finally made it fast enough to practically use.
It's worth mentioning that newer Samsung phones and tablets have an eFuse that is blown when you unlock them. This permanently disables some functionality of their separate secure element (IIRC). If you are planning to run LineageOS forever, it would probably not be a big issue, but if you just want to try a third-party OS or ever resell the device, it could be an issue.
I haven't used custom roms in ages, but I used Lineage back when it was called Cyanogen. It had this cool thing where you could adjust brightness by swiping the top edge of the screen. (This was back in the day when you could reach that part easily!)
My personal take is that most Android devices no longer get updates pretty soon after the release (where pretty soon means 2-3 years). Google promises 7 years of support for their newer devices, but most vendors don't.
LineageOS is, besides the fact hat it is more open for non google stuff, providing Android Updates for older devices. While this does not necessarily provide better security (rooted devices are often not considered as secure), you still get the newer Androids security patches and FEATURES. Furthermore you are more open to do what you want.
To not have Google built into all alspects of your life too much. Although it still uses some essential Google services, it does take out most unnecessary stuff, which you often can optionally add later in a possibly more secure form, but sometimes can't, which will cause very specific apps using these services not to function, or these features of those apps.
And if Chat Control will be implemented in Google Android, then LineageOS also offers you a way out of that, which is a huge plus of course if you ask me.
QFT. Lineage and Graphene are the last bastions of freedom on mobile phones. Linux phones aren't quite there yet in terms of usability, and sacrifice compatibility with thousands of great apps (including many great FOSS apps) available on Android.
If you want to escape Google's monopoly, you can use LineageOS without google apps, as opposed to the malware and spyware-ridden trash that usually comes preinstalled on your phone.
It makes perfect sense to use it if you even remotely care about better performance, battery life and privacy. Google ships it's bloated apps which not only tracks everything and runs on privileged mode but degrades your battery life to a great extent
And it's a decently recent version with more-or-less official Nvidia Tegra drivers, too. For the variety of weird-but-ubiquitous devices that have a bootloader hack, LineageOS is the route to a working smart device that anyone can pick up and use.
> And I heard that Google stopped pushing Pixel source?
> Yes, Google has pulled back here too. Pixel kernels are now only offered as history-stripped tarballs, available privately on request, with no device trees, HALs, or configs. Thanks to projects like CalyxOS, Pixels will likely remain well supported, but they’re no longer guaranteed “day one” devices for LineageOS. Pixel devices are now effectively no easier to support than any other OEM’s devices. In short, this just makes things harder, not impossible.
These fucking bastards. How far we have fallen in ~10 years of smartphone ubiquity. I have zero hopes that this monopolising trend will ever be reversed without top-down regulation from a big bloc like the EU.
If you look at EU and its inaction over Microsoft privacy shenanigans with Win10 and 11. How it spins around Apple and cannot enforce them to fully open their mobile operating system then I sadly have little hopes they can do anything regarding Google and their recent decisions around Play store and 3rd party apps.
I wish something could be done but sadly feels like regular people have to climb mountains to protect themselves while corporations just come in by front door with lucrative deals in order to protect their status-quo
At the risk of sounding knee-jerk libertarian (though there are worse ways to sound), it seems to me that top-down, big bloc regulation is a non-trivial piece of what has gotten into this mess.
The entrenchment via regulatory capture at the baseband level, with enormous state interplay with TSMC and Qualcomm (both economic and regulatory, both publicly known and classified), makes it impossible for a seriously independent actor to enter the market, exception _maybe_ an ubercapitalist like Musk or something.
I'm much more interested to see what happens when we achieve sufficient peace that industrial complexes are no longer the primary pillar of support for chip engineering and fabrication. I suspect that this will unlock the open development, up to the kernel and beyond, that we all hope for.
What would baseband usage look like in a deregulated world?
I’m skeptical, but the question is honest. Without the (quite corrupt) allotment of frequencies and broadcast radio tech by the FCC and government, I’m having trouble envisioning a future that doesn’t end up back at the bcm/qcm/etc. near-monopoly … just via market collusion rather than state orchestration. Is there a better future there that I’m missing?
You can't blame the EU for Google pulling developer support for devices or holding back security patches.
There are pros and cons to "big bloc regulation". You can go and start a phone company since so many things are standarised but the main constraint will be who you source a modem from and the lack of choice will be because of patents (see Apple vs Qualcomm).
It has a Mediatek soc, custom roms for these chips are scarce. If you look at the supported devices on the Lineage wiki, you’ll see only 2 out of 550 devices have a Mediatek soc[0], most of them are Qualcomm.
And iirc from the xda forums, even for Xiaomi phones with a Qualcomm soc it isn’t certain anyone will try to make a custom rom. Xiaomi just releases too many devices to have support for all of them.
Note, GrapheneOS seems to have been able to secure partner access to Android early security releases, but this comes with the cost that the source used to make these special "01" builds is private until general availability. This might not be a tradeoff that LineageOS is willing to take; GrapheneOS has provided the option on a recommended opt-in basis.
https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/27068-grapheneos-security-p...
The bad thing in general is the dependence on Google policy for all AOSP distros. Joining those programs might long term worsen the situation.
IMHO, it could be worth the fight if GrapheneOS could win their (rather legal/lobbying) battle to obtain play integrity certification by following security closely (which is a joke IMHO because EOL phones with not updates for years also get integrity). Google releasing easily diffable security only bytecode sets, seems like a security nightmare for everyone else.
All of those distros suffer from the reliance of Google to release anything, so they in one way or the other they play the game. Particularly Lineage heavily does 'self-censoring' to comply without much benefit IMHO. We really would need e.g. does not even include the keys for providing alternative web views or the ability to switch the location provider. While google has those capabilities, they only support services sending data to their own servers.
I used lineage as my daily driver since the CyanogenMod days and the HTC desire, but switched to a Google Pixel a few month back, because I felt I had lost the play integrity fight and although my great Redmi Note 10 Pro was running other like a charm thanks to lineage and the device maintainers (Daniel and Aryan), I personally could not invest time and cognitive capacity anymore.
More and more device manufacturers are locking down their bootloaders again. I hope someone can break the momentum and finds a way to break the OS duopoly.
We have the sources for the patches which is how they get applied the source tree. We have both the regular releases and security preview releases so it's easy to see what was changed since it's a small amount of code: currently 59 security patches for Android 16, similar to the size of typical Android security patches, although 1 was already public elsewhere so we applied to the regular release.
> does not even include the keys for providing alternative web views or the ability to switch the location provider.
Trusting third parties with this is a privacy and security risk. GrapheneOS uses our Vanadium fork of Chromium for the WebView and LineageOS has their own builds of Chromium for it. We provide our own network location implementation using a semi-offline approach based on Apple's location service. We plan to add fully offline support for both Wi-Fi and cell tower network location via downloading regional databases. SUPL is essentially obsolete for GrapheneOS since all supported devices have PSDS and the network location service is already used to help accelerate GNSS when enabled, so we could just remove that instead of making our own SUPL service based on the same data.
We're making progress in fighting the Play Integrity API but governments and regulators move slowly. Courts also move slowly but we haven't brought it to a court yet and would prefer not having to do that. We would greatly prefer if Google worked it out with us and other AOSP-based operating systems but it doesn't appear there's much chance of that ever happening. It's strange since we were never hostile towards them, earned them a lot of money via hardware sales and made substantial upstream contributions.
A major Android OEM is working with us because unlike Google, they're able to see the significant benefits of working with us and selling a lot of devices based on it once they have official GrapheneOS support. Google could have worked with us and others instead of the path they're taking. They could have sold a lot more Pixels by opening up the devices more and improving them. Instead, they'll sell a lot fewer Pixels than they could have as one of the main reasons people buy them goes away. A lot of people who bought them and used the stock OS still bought them because they knew they could get first class support for another OS. They're shooting themselves in the foot. Our userbase will be buying devices from another OEM instead once they meet our requirements.
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Yeah, yesterday I got a pop-up post-update that explained the situation and asked me if I wanted the closed source blobs.
The preview patches are source code patches we're applying to the source tree used for the regular GrapheneOS releases. We have the sources for the patches, but we need to wait to the embargo end date to publish the security preview patches as source code. We keep the patches in a dedicated Git repository with a script for applying them to the source tree from the regular release. Each security preview release is tagged there, so we can release the sources which were used as soon as the embargo date is reached.
As far as I have heard they have not actually secured partner access for themselves, they just got someone who has access to break their NDA.
No, GrapheneOS is partnered with a major Android OEM and has security partner access through them. Our security preview releases are in full compliance with the terms set by Google. It's permitted to ship the patches early with delayed source releases for the patches on the dates the embargoes end. The current patches are from the November 2025, December 2025 and January 2026 bulletins. We've shipped the full set of currently available patches for those 3 months.
See https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134-devices-lacking-stand... for a more detailed explanation.
The access comes from GrapheneOS' OEM partner who isn't breaking any kind of NDA.
I don't know the exact terminology, but they described what they currently have as security partner access or at least advanced access to security patches. To my knowledge they are still working on full partner access that would grant them timely access to the AOSP source code.
I'd love to see a hybrid phone with an embedded stock android for banking, pay and government apps and a regular LinageOS or Linux OS that runs on a separate partition/hw/vm.
Like "gluing" two phones together - just better ;)
It would be great to run an open OS but having to carry a separate phone for banking/paying is not really a viable option.
There's 0 reason why bank/pay/gov apps can't be ran on a regular OS. The goal is to force users into the Google world at the excuse of "security"
This is on point and it's sickening what Google is allowed to get away with. Even with the recent crackdowns on Google by various governments, they are steadily locking down Android, so even if you paid for your phone, whatever apps that you want to put on it will need their seal of approval.
The excuse of "security" or "it's for the children" is complete BS, because it's about "them" having unwanted and total control.
I would be happy if any of the big phone makers will starting adopting LineageOS or GrapheneOS as the main operating system for some of their models.
Or just leave the possibility of easy unlock the phone and publish sources.
BQ tried that with Cyanogen (the precursor to Lineage) https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/bq-aquaris-x5
As did WileyFox - https://www.xda-developers.com/wileyfox-to-issue-update-to-m...
They were both budget brands with niche offerings. For most people, the source of the OS is immaterial. There's very little competitive advantage to selling a forked OS, and a rather large downside in terms of support costs.
I'm mostly happy with my GrapheneOS device - but it is absolutely not suitable for mass market.
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GrapheneOS is partnered with a major Android OEM and working towards some of their future devices meeting our requirements and providing official GrapheneOS support. It won't be the main operating system, but it will be an officially supported option. Their current devices don't meet our requirements, but they're working towards meeting those for future devices.
Banking, pay and government apps should be a website and work on any device with a web browser.
Lots of them are, in fact. It's not that hard, maybe even easier. What's wrong with the rest of them that require a phone?
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My bank (Commbank) and my government (myID), both require apps to access the website.
All my banking apps works fine under lineage. The only app that does not work is McDonald. I have not investigated very far, maybe it is possible to make it work.
The only app I use that actually cares is Craigslist of all things. The app doesn't do anything that the mobile website doesn't.
For the love of God, why does McD's of all people require device attestation? I assume it's some downline package they are including?
It's great to see Android TV mentioned. Has anyone managed to build a freedom-respecting TV box with Lineage? This is a much needed alternative to "smart" TVs and streaming boxes filled with spyware and arbitrary restrictions.
This!
Looks like LineageOS supports various iterations of the Nvidia Shield device. What I'm wondering is whether this new Catapult launcher is compatible with Android TV that comes with off the shelf Smart TVs. I've grown accustomed to the default screen on my current TV's in-built Google TV (not Android TV, although I'm not totally sure of the difference), but it does enforce at least one additional click to get to the actual functions I, and the family, use it for.
Gonna check out Catapult right now.
Edited to add note: It looks as if the latest Nvidia Shield device requires soldering a USB port onto the mainboard of the device[0]. That probably excludes a decent percentage of people who may otherwise be happy software hacking a device.
[0]: https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/sif/install/#usb-port-ins...
This is it for the non-Pro models only since they come with 3 USB-A ports
Nate Johnson, one of the devs at LineageOS, maintains some official and unofficial builds. You could go from scratch using a Radxa SBC, or try to get an older streaming device (like one of the previous versions of the Chromecast). Some of these older devices even got Widevine DRM still working after installing LineageOS, if you want to use a streaming service.
https://xdaforums.com/t/official-lineageos-22-for-amlogic-gx...
Most of the hardware mentioned, like the 2021 edition of the Walmart Onn, isn't available for purchase anymore, so that's a rather limited list.
I think that a generic mini-PC would make more sense overall, but can Lineage be build for x86 at all?
There's a build for RPi5, I didn't try it yet but intend to do it soonish.
https://konstakang.com/devices/rpi5/
I'd be curious to see how that works out. One of the main advantages of the Pi is that it supports HDMI-CEC. However, I am seen reports that it struggles with 4K playback at more than 30fps. Even 60Hz isn't great if you have a modern TV and want to use SteamLink to play Steam games running on your PC from your couch.
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Almost all major streaming services will refuse to work on unapproved devices.
You don't "streaming services" when you can open a Web browser and stream from the high seas, or download NewPipe from F-Droid, or download Jellyfin and stream local content.
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You can always Magisk your device to workaround this.
Over recent user privacy (and security) crackdowns from Google, these OS upgrades seem to be becoming more appealing. Can anyone comment on what differs Lineage from something like GrapheneOS?
Security & Privacy: GrapheneOS
Freedom & Features: LineageOS
That is not to say you have no freedom or extra features with Graphene, or no security with Lineage, it’s just what either project has very clearly as main target.
I do miss some features since switching to GrapheneOS (customizable on screen nav, volume rocker for cursor control), but I’m very happy with stuff like sandboxed google play services.
GrapheneOS provides a lot of features not available in LineageOS. Our focus for is privacy, security and replacing Google apps/services. The features we add aren't only privacy and security features. We provide our own network location and geocoding support. Local text-to-speech and speech-to-text are being developed. It also provides a bunch of assorted features such as forcing the availability of VoLTE, VoNR, VoWiFi and 5G.
https://grapheneos.org/features is an overview of what's provided compared to AOSP but doesn't cover everything yet, especially recent additions.
I have used both, and I can personally use my smartphone properly with both.
GrapheneOS is more strict about security, making it more secure but less accessible (at the moment you can only run GrapheneOS on Pixel phones).
I am happy with GrapheneOS' policy: that's exactly why I use GrapheneOS, to the point where I bought a Pixel just for GrapheneOS. Many people complain about GrapheneOS not supporting other phones. IMO it's the other way round: the other Android manufacturers do not support GrapheneOS.
If you really want GrapheneOS to lower their security in order to run on another phone, what you want is actually LineageOS.
GrapheneOS is partnered with a major Android OEM we're working with towards their next generation devices supporting GrapheneOS. The devices will meet all of our official requirements listed at https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices rather than lowering these standards. We kept the minimum support time at 5 years since we know providing 7 is difficult but all the rest should be possible to provide via a Snapdragon 8 Elite Gen 5.
There is little point in fortifying the front-door when the backdoor is wide open.
The hardware itself should never be trusted when being produced by a vendor like Google and cannot be verified on the component level. Their business model completely revolves in reducing your private sphere and sell it to others.
Never use google hardware if you are serious about security.
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Graphene is probably better on the devices that support both (Pixels), but since hardware support is so (intentionally) limited, it kind of a moot point. Also the Graphene community is kind of obsessed with "security" and does not seem to place much emphasis on freedom/hackability.
Why the scare quotes? Graphene’s focus on security is legitimate and well founded. They are the only phone OS that is consistently safe from hacking by the likes of Cellebrite long after all other androids have fallen.
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A few years ago, Lineage was just a customizable tinkerer friendly AOSP. It served as a base for a lot more Android distros. It was just a smoother Android variant with features like double tap on the notification bar to sleep, better integrated root support, more built in theming options.
Graphene OS was only available for a few Pixel Devices whose source was fully available and mainly focused on security features like improved permissions and more anti tracking features.
To give an example, a company I worked for shipped it's phones with a Lineage OS base with a few patches from Graphene OS to replace default ntp and connectivity check servers.
GrapheneOS is a privacy and security hardened OS. The third party comparison table at https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm focused on privacy and security provides a good overview. The GrapheneOS features page at https://grapheneos.org/features provides an overview of many of the changes it makes compared to standard Android.
GOS only works on Google phones
That's only because Pixels are the only devices meeting the hardware security and update requirements. GrapheneOS has an OEM partner working on meeting our requirements for some of their future devices. That's how GrapheneOS is able to provide our security preview releases with security patches from 3 months of upcoming Android Security Bulletins.
If you want to check supported devices together with some sustainability criteria and other ROMs, I just updated https://www.sustaphones.com/ to reflect that LOS update.
Well, this looks nice. Tons more devices than Graphene or Postmarket supported.
Which hardware should one get to run this? Which hardware is reasonably ethical? Perhaps the Fairphone 5? There are lots of choices from Motorola and OnePlus but I know nothing about them. (Well I remember the old Moto up to Y2k.) Not sure where to buy them.
With reasonable ethical you indeed might want to look into the Fairphones. The Fairphone 6 was reviewed as being a nice improvement over the 5. I'd expect LineageOS to land on that device some time in the future, after all the prior three models are supported. You could wait for that, or settle for the 5.
If you want something cheap and easy instead of the Fairphone, the Motorola moto g 5G (2024) looks good. Supported by LineageOS 23.0 and also on the list of calyx devices, https://calyxos.org/docs/guide/device-support/#modern-device..., with vendor security updates till 2027 (though calyx is on pause, that's me only hoping the device list will still apply afterwards, would be an interesting additional option). Not available in my market though, or just hard to find with that name given the other similarly named motorola phones.
OnePlus 12R is one of the newest phones that is supported, and will get vendor updates until 2028. No headphone jack and no sd card slot though.
Ethical does not describe the OnePlus and Motorola phones. But anything used could be judged as such, since you then at least did not add to the garbage pile of unrepairable devices directly - but they are a bit new for that maybe. On the other hand, vendor security updates don't exist for many of the older devices (especially those from Motorola, they churn out new devices by the dozens and almost immediately abandon them), and the new EU regulations that force vendors to provide security updates only apply to new devices.
The LineageOS port for the FP6 is already well-underway and close to daily-drivable AFAIK. Support for iodéOS has also been announced as planned within 2025, which seems like a good alternative to Calyx.
Thanks! Oh, I forgot to ask about the hardware working in the US? Also, does Lineage force you to make an account somewhere?
I see the Murena, which I think is the same hardware. But their page says the bootloader is locked. Hmm, think that's a no-go. https://murena.com/america/shop/smartphones/brand-new/murena...
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The reason GrapheneOS doesn't support these additional devices is because they don't provide proper privacy/security patches or security features. Pixels are currently the only devices with proper alternate OS support with a reasonable level of security. That's why we have an OEM partner we're working with towards their future devices meeting our requirements. The hardware requirements are listed at https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices. Pixels provide 7 years of proper updates while other devices do not.
Fairphone 4 and Pixel 6 were released in October 2021. Fairphone 4 is on the soon to be end-of-life Android 13 and already end-of-life Linux 4.19 kernel branch. Pixel 6 is on Android 16 QPR1 and the Linux 6.1 kernel branch since it moved to it from Linux 5.10. Fairphone has 1-2 month delays for partial security backports to older releases and years of delays for major OS updates. This does impact another OS supporting the hardware. Fairphone 5 is using the Linux 5.4 kernel that's end-of-life in December 2025 with no plans to migrate to a new kernel. Fairphone devices are missing the security features required by GrapheneOS too including but not limited to MTE (hardware memory tagging) which is the basis for Apple's recent launch of Memory Integrity Enforcement but has been more heavily used by GrapheneOS since October 2023.
GrapheneOS is a much different kind of project than LineageOS and other AOSP-based operating systems. The privacy and security focused comparison table at https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm shows that quite clearly.
Any way to get this to run in a VM? Or should I give up and buy a phone that can handle it and use it through remote desktop tools?
Yes, I run Waydroid (LineageOS in a Linux container) in an Ubuntu x86_64 VM on my home PC using their default installation method, plus libhoudini via https://github.com/casualsnek/waydroid_script to be able to run arm64-only apps, and waypipe the UI to my (Linux) phone that is connected to my home LAN via Wireguard.
I used to run Waydroid directly on the phone, but the phone has terrible specs and Waydroid had become frustrating in the last few months, when it updated its LineageOS image to a new Android version. It would frequently crash or pop up an infinite series of "app is not responding" dialog boxes, even though whatever app it was was responding just fine. With my new VM + waypipe setup, Waydroid launches in ~10s instead of ~3 minutes, and everything is reasonably snappy despite now traveling over the network, so I'm happy.
There is a guide on how to set up LineageOS for libvirt (i.e. QEMU) [1], but there exist no prebuilt images at this point in time.
[1] https://wiki.lineageos.org/libvirt-qemu
The requirements are monstrous: 300GB storage, 32GB RAM. My everyday working laptop has a 240GB SSD. I've build the kernel, Firefox, and the heaviest packages which I use from sources with a fraction of those resources.
I can't even fathom what the build system is doing in order to require this amount of storage.
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The article to which you're commenting has two whole paragraphs on the newly introduced support for virtualisation and qemu.
Waydroid runs Lineage, so it's certainly possible, but I don't know how easy it is on something like QEMU.
That being said buying a phone compatible with Lineage or Graphene (only Pixels for the latter) is well worth it. This will probably become even more important in the future if Google bans sideloading or complies with idiotic laws such client-side scanning of messages in some markets.
How do backups/restores work when using LineageOS and moving to a new phone?
With Titanium Backup unmaintained, Neo Backup [1] works pretty well. It has some potential issues with restoring wifi/bluetooth/sms as those were still experimental, last I used it. But sms at least worked. I'd suggest a 2nd backup app of those, just in case.
[1] https://github.com/NeoApplications/Neo-Backup
LineageOS includes Seedvault for backup and restore. It's not 100% reliably across devices apparently, but should typically work: https://github.com/seedvault-app/seedvault/discussions/331#d...
This requires both phones to use Seedvault though, so it's not an option when moving from the stock OS to LineageOS.
They're seamless. Any phone that allows you true `root` can do nandroid style backups which work very similar to how iOS does backups.
LineageOS is an open source android distribution. Can anyone comment on who might use LineageOS and why?
Every version of Lineage has rooted ADB accessible in the developer options. If you want root for apps, you must load Magisk. If root is important to you, this is your OS.
Lineage puts out all the patches that they can, every month, unlike OEMs. If current patches are important to you, this is your OS.
Lineage allows you to run it without any Google closed source code.
These are some serious advantages, depending upon what you are trying to do.
I use LineageOS on all my devices (it's actually my main criteria when buying a phone) to mainly install apps from F-Droid without relying on the Google Play Store.
It has the same familiar look and feel on all devices and by experience is way snappier than the original ROM.
are you able to do any banking your phone?
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Got a Xperia Z1 in 2013. Sony stopped updating it at some point in 2014-2015, which is stupid, but the hardware was still like new (which is the great thing about Sony phones) so I rooted it and managed to install it. Can't remember if it was already named "LineageOS" or "CyanogenMod" at the time. However, it lasted with me until nov. 2020 when I dropped and the screen cracked, made it to be changed but the replacement was kinda bad so used it as an excuse to get a 1ii.
I did the same with this "new" phone, that is going to be 5 years with me - since also got that only-two-years-of-updates thing, threw LineageOS on it and it's going as new.
So as I said the last time I saw a post about it in here, thanks to LineageOS I can use a phone for way more than they are set out to be forgotten. It's a great project and it's really sad Google are making things harder for them for the sake of "security".
I immediately put Lineage on all my devices. In fact, I only buy Android devices that Lineage supports. It's a uniform, degoogled Android experience that just works.
What devices do you use Lineage on may I ask?
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If your phone is more than a few years old it likely doesn't get updates from the manufacturer anymore. LineageOS will get you to the latest Android with security patches. Same sort of deal as with OpenWRT for a router really, you get all the features and security patches but at the loss of the firmware that the device came with and its propriety enhancements.
I have a Samsung Tablet and Samsung's version for said tablet is a giant mountain of crap, full of bloatware, so I installed LineageOS on it. Also my old phone and my old old phone run LineageOS because I'm just logged in to Google on my {current_phone}.
I ran LineageOS on my Moto X4 for many years. It was much faster without the OEM Moto and carrier apps, and was faster again when I installed it without Google Play Services. Same thing with an old Kindle Fire tablet, finally made it fast enough to practically use.
It's worth mentioning that newer Samsung phones and tablets have an eFuse that is blown when you unlock them. This permanently disables some functionality of their separate secure element (IIRC). If you are planning to run LineageOS forever, it would probably not be a big issue, but if you just want to try a third-party OS or ever resell the device, it could be an issue.
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Can you tell which tablet is that? I'm lurking around and wondering if I should pick Samsung one once iPad battery dies out
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I haven't used custom roms in ages, but I used Lineage back when it was called Cyanogen. It had this cool thing where you could adjust brightness by swiping the top edge of the screen. (This was back in the day when you could reach that part easily!)
My personal take is that most Android devices no longer get updates pretty soon after the release (where pretty soon means 2-3 years). Google promises 7 years of support for their newer devices, but most vendors don't.
LineageOS is, besides the fact hat it is more open for non google stuff, providing Android Updates for older devices. While this does not necessarily provide better security (rooted devices are often not considered as secure), you still get the newer Androids security patches and FEATURES. Furthermore you are more open to do what you want.
However LineageOS does to my knowledge not support bootloader re-locking on most devices, which might be a security risk (see https://grapheneos.org/install/web#locking-the-bootloader).
Google promises 7 years of support for their newer devices, but most vendors don't.
Unless you have a Pixel 6 and your security update goes missing?
(Didn't get the July security update and the October update is still missing? https://www.reddit.com/r/GooglePixel/comments/1o2bhur/where_... )
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To not have Google built into all alspects of your life too much. Although it still uses some essential Google services, it does take out most unnecessary stuff, which you often can optionally add later in a possibly more secure form, but sometimes can't, which will cause very specific apps using these services not to function, or these features of those apps.
And if Chat Control will be implemented in Google Android, then LineageOS also offers you a way out of that, which is a huge plus of course if you ask me.
I want to use an OS that isn't loaded with spyware, so non-FOSS Android just doesn't fit the bill for me.
QFT. Lineage and Graphene are the last bastions of freedom on mobile phones. Linux phones aren't quite there yet in terms of usability, and sacrifice compatibility with thousands of great apps (including many great FOSS apps) available on Android.
for some certain models it offers updated android versions (while the company doesn't)
You might remember them by their old name, Cyanogenmod
Because aosp is basically useless on your phone - it lacks a ton of apps
If you want to escape Google's monopoly, you can use LineageOS without google apps, as opposed to the malware and spyware-ridden trash that usually comes preinstalled on your phone.
Even if you run LineageOS without Google, LineageOS still phones home to Google for DNS and captive portal checks.
https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm
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It makes perfect sense to use it if you even remotely care about better performance, battery life and privacy. Google ships it's bloated apps which not only tracks everything and runs on privileged mode but degrades your battery life to a great extent
You can run LineageOS on the Nintendo Switch if you want: https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/nx/variant1/
And it's a decently recent version with more-or-less official Nvidia Tegra drivers, too. For the variety of weird-but-ubiquitous devices that have a bootloader hack, LineageOS is the route to a working smart device that anyone can pick up and use.
Somewhat related:
I could never get adb in my M1 Air (Tahoe and Sonoma too) to detect any android devices.
I have an OnePlus Nord CE 2 Lite 5G.
Same cable and everything works fine on Ubuntu and Windows machines.
The phone is not getting detected in the "System Information" either.
Tried MTP, PTP, USB Debugging, OTG everything.
Anyone faced this issue?
I have an M1 Air too and adb works fine for me. I used homebrew to install it ("brew install android-platform-tools").
I used the same command
ADB starts correctly but can't detect the phone
Your Chrome-based browser might be blocking the port that adb uses.
adb is able to start successfully and listens on its port
I'll have to do the update through my computer with ADB.
As long as it'll be the case, Lineage will never be more popular.
But thanks for the great fork. It's already enormous.
Anyone setup a Rabbit R1 with lineage?
> And I heard that Google stopped pushing Pixel source?
> Yes, Google has pulled back here too. Pixel kernels are now only offered as history-stripped tarballs, available privately on request, with no device trees, HALs, or configs. Thanks to projects like CalyxOS, Pixels will likely remain well supported, but they’re no longer guaranteed “day one” devices for LineageOS. Pixel devices are now effectively no easier to support than any other OEM’s devices. In short, this just makes things harder, not impossible.
These fucking bastards. How far we have fallen in ~10 years of smartphone ubiquity. I have zero hopes that this monopolising trend will ever be reversed without top-down regulation from a big bloc like the EU.
If you look at EU and its inaction over Microsoft privacy shenanigans with Win10 and 11. How it spins around Apple and cannot enforce them to fully open their mobile operating system then I sadly have little hopes they can do anything regarding Google and their recent decisions around Play store and 3rd party apps.
I wish something could be done but sadly feels like regular people have to climb mountains to protect themselves while corporations just come in by front door with lucrative deals in order to protect their status-quo
At the risk of sounding knee-jerk libertarian (though there are worse ways to sound), it seems to me that top-down, big bloc regulation is a non-trivial piece of what has gotten into this mess.
The entrenchment via regulatory capture at the baseband level, with enormous state interplay with TSMC and Qualcomm (both economic and regulatory, both publicly known and classified), makes it impossible for a seriously independent actor to enter the market, exception _maybe_ an ubercapitalist like Musk or something.
I'm much more interested to see what happens when we achieve sufficient peace that industrial complexes are no longer the primary pillar of support for chip engineering and fabrication. I suspect that this will unlock the open development, up to the kernel and beyond, that we all hope for.
What would baseband usage look like in a deregulated world?
I’m skeptical, but the question is honest. Without the (quite corrupt) allotment of frequencies and broadcast radio tech by the FCC and government, I’m having trouble envisioning a future that doesn’t end up back at the bcm/qcm/etc. near-monopoly … just via market collusion rather than state orchestration. Is there a better future there that I’m missing?
You can't blame the EU for Google pulling developer support for devices or holding back security patches.
There are pros and cons to "big bloc regulation". You can go and start a phone company since so many things are standarised but the main constraint will be who you source a modem from and the lack of choice will be because of patents (see Apple vs Qualcomm).
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:^)
^^
I just want something, anything at all, for my Redmi 14C. No luck so far.
It has a Mediatek soc, custom roms for these chips are scarce. If you look at the supported devices on the Lineage wiki, you’ll see only 2 out of 550 devices have a Mediatek soc[0], most of them are Qualcomm.
And iirc from the xda forums, even for Xiaomi phones with a Qualcomm soc it isn’t certain anyone will try to make a custom rom. Xiaomi just releases too many devices to have support for all of them.
[0] https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/
Well, waiting for the eBPF backport then.. still more likely to be released than AOSP 16 QPR1 :)