Comment by presentation
2 days ago
One data point, I live in East Asia, it’s very illegal, and vanishingly few people have drug problems (often they substitute for other problems that are less illegal, like gambling or sex).
2 days ago
One data point, I live in East Asia, it’s very illegal, and vanishingly few people have drug problems (often they substitute for other problems that are less illegal, like gambling or sex).
Well, that’s really nice, and I don’t know how you pull that off, but it doesn’t translate to western societies. It’s very illegal most places, but how much of a problem it is seems to vary by region.
It doesn't translate because you don't get the death penalty for having 1g of Cannabis
I moved to Asia from London / NY.
I found this draconian policy jarring at first (never a drug user, but casual cocaine / pot use was everywhere in both London and NY, and the usual cocktail of whatever was fashionable too).
You get used to these policies pretty quickly, and in exchange there are no (visible) drug users and no (visible) homelessness; I don't think in the West we are willing to sacrifice the freedom to do these things, or impose the death penalty for importing drugs (we have abolished it for nearly every other crime apart from murder in most jurisdictions).
I say that not making a value judgement (I cherish and in some cases miss western freedoms, and believe we do all too little to defend them at home), rather observing from nearly 40 years in western society and <12 months in the East.
It's worth remembering that much of Asia went through terrible drug addiction epidemics in the 20th century [0], and they decided to take drastic action, which probably took 25 years to fully bear fruit.
I also don't believe this policy, in isolation, is the whole answer. Asia (and particularly Singapore) focuses on society, community and other values which attenuate the factors which lead to, and are exacerbated by, drug use (violence, theft, vagrancy, unemployment, under-employment).
You give up a lot of freedom, but you get order in return. For some of us, that is acceptable. For others, this is not (and that is ultimately a matter for voters in each polity).
[0] https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/bulletin/bu...
It doesn’t translate to western societies because the vast majority of western societies thinks the death penalty is unacceptable at all. And getting the death penalty for drug possession no mater the scale is absolutely insane.
1 reply →
Japan is prison usually around 2 years. But the bigger effect is probably cultural/indoctrination, less than the scale of punishment.
Yes, if you execute everyone who takes drugs, you won't have many drug users, but that creates a worse problem that you are executing people for taking drugs.
Not every country in east Asia is Singapore, and the point I’m making is that the commenter thinking there is no way to reduce drug addiction besides extreme permissiveness has counterexamples here today. This is a failure of imagination.