Comment by Valodim
1 month ago
What does this even mean? You don't want software updates? Or strictly only software updates that are 100% aligned with your wishes whatever they may be at the time?
1 month ago
What does this even mean? You don't want software updates? Or strictly only software updates that are 100% aligned with your wishes whatever they may be at the time?
No forced updates, no downgrade prohibition, no bootloader locking, kernel GPL compliance (with drivers that can be loaded in it, even if they are closed source), no remote attestation.
The bare minimum so that I can use the device I bought as I wish, even if the manufacturer later decides to "alter the deal".
Unironically, I want finished software. I don't like it one bit how the vast majority of software products today are in an "eternal beta", so to speak.
Android, in particular, is a finished product. It doesn't need yearly updates. It may need an occasional update to patch a vulnerability, but this whole "we changed the notification shade UI for tenth time because we're so out of ideas" thing has to stop.
Yeah, that's the problem. As soon as it became feasible to push upgrades over the wire, software companies started relying on it. And unfortunately that mentality is viral, because as soon as one thing starts doing that, anything that else that interoperates with that other thing winds up having to do it to some extent. It's a tragedy of the commons.
I don't think software is ever finished.
But I'd definitely love to not be shipped alpha or beta software. MVPs are great when hacking, but why are we shipping hacked together stuff. "It works" doesn't mean it actually works...
> I don't think software is ever finished.
Back when it came on physical media, it was very much finished. Needing an update to fix a critical bug or a UX issue was a very costly problem to have, both in money and in reputation. Users had to be convinced to buy and install major updates, instead of being strong-armed into it. Staying on an older version was easier, and in case of operating systems, much more widely accepted.
Many video games fall into that category even today. Sure, the "we can always release an update" mentality did infest game developers as well, but, unlike apps and OSes, most games do have a finite scope and stop being developed once that scope has been realized.
25 replies →
On Google Play, it's only finished for a few years at best. If it's not updated to the latest version, eventually it gets delisted.
That's exactly my point — if Android itself doesn't have meaningless updates every year, then apps won't need them either.
> You don't want software updates?
Most of the time, software updates remove features, change things around for no good reason (breaking our workflows), or add unwanted features.
We really should separate pure bugfix updates (which include security updates) from feature updates. We nearly always want the former, but not necessarily the latter.
So much this. I totally want security fixes, but I only want security fixes. I don't want UI changes, features removed or altered, or anything with my usability upset.
My computing devices are tools I use to do my job and run my life. I don't want those tools changing without my consent.
Unfortunately, even for desktop software, this has shifted today: you can hardly get a security update without a feature upgrade too.
Except in cases like Debian (or Ubuntu LTS main collection, Redhat distribution...) which assumes the burden of backporting security fixes to a stable collection of software.
3 replies →
I want it exactly as it is in Linux land. This is a solved problem. How are you so dumbfounded?
So why aren't you using GNU/Linux phones?
network effect. Assumptions made by other devs, banking and even government apps, etc
Maybe I do, maybe I don't. It's for me to decide what updates I want, if any. Apple and Microsoft do not give you a choice. Precisely zero people wanted Copilot on their computers, but it's there anyway whether you want it or not.
You can choose not to update in both Android and iOS. Same with running Windows.
Security bugfixes are tied to feature upgrades, unfortunately.
Why would anyone want an update misaligned with them, ever?
You should be able to set auto update, auto update with confirmation, manual update only, for any or all apps.
What someone does with that, and why, isnt something anyone should have to explain or excuse.
It could be as simple as not wanting any new features beyond but what an original version of an app has. Or not wanting an update that takes user data surveillance to another level.
I think this is a good point, even if you're presenting it as a false dichotomy.
Obviously saying "Apple shouldn't be allowed to touch my device after I purchase it" as well as "Apple should be compelled to provide security updates" is nuts.
But I think saying, "Apple shouldn't be allowed to touch my device after I purchase it" as well as "I should be able to provide my own security updates, if Apple doesn't want to" is totally reasonable.
But Apple would never allow that. So allowing sideloading seems like a reasonable amount of pain Apple should be forced to put up with...
I don't think Apple should be compelled to provide security updates. I think Apple should be held accountable for security vulnerabilities in anything they release. You can't evade liability by patching it later.
I'll take that deal 9 times out of 10. Why would I want updates tied to a phone if I'm going to be installing my own software with its own updates? This is already done on most software, browsers, etc. CVE on text messages? Cool, wasn't using the manufacturer's app anyway.
>only software updates that are 100% aligned with your wishes whatever they may be at the time?
wild that you seem to think this is a gotcha question. yes, all the software I want on my devices, and only software I want on my devices
Pure security updates are often better than the status quo, but yes I'd prefer to have zero updates instead of the current mess.
Maybe software updates could contain things users actually want, that provide a competitive incentive for users to choose to buy the phones from specific makers?
> Or strictly only software updates that are 100% aligned with your wishes whatever they may be at the time?
Um, yes? Constant push-updates are one of the worst tech trends of the last 10-20 years.
why does having software updates mean giving up control of the device ?
Security Updates - They should be considered as in warranty servicing of faulty software.
Software Updates - These are turning out to be a scam in some ways. The decision to regularly introduce new APIs and forcefully obsolete old APIs/features is theirs. Consumers don't have to pay for it with the control. The cost of it should be baked into the initial purchase cost. A new feature that restricts access is an anti-feature.
GNU/Linux provides the updates and yet lets you own the device.