You know you're conscious, but you can't prove the consciousness of anybody around you, nor can you prove your own consciousness to others.
To an external observer, another human's brain and body is nothing more than a complex electrical/chemical circuit. They could easily be a P-Zombie [0], a human body with no consciousness inside, but the circuits are running and producing the appearance of consciousness via reactions to stimuli that mimic a conscious human.
Theoretically, with sufficient technology, you could take a snapshot of the state of someone's brain and use it to predict exactly how they would react to any given stimulus.
Just think about how medications can change the way people behave and the decisions they make. We're all just meat and free will is an illusion.
But getting back on topic...my instinct wants to say that a computer cannot become conscious, but it may merely produce an output that resembles consciousness. A computer is merely a rock that we've shaped to do math. I want to say you can't give consciousness to a rock, but then how did we become conscious? My understanding that life began as primordial soup that resulted in self-replicating molecules that formed protein chains, which over millions of years evolved into single-celled life, which then evolved into multi-celled life, and eventually the complex organisms we have today...how did consciousness happen?
Somehow, consciousness can arise from non-conscious matter. With that knowledge, I do not think it is impossible for a computer to gain consciousness.
I do not think there is really such thing as a p-zombie. If you simulate feelings and act on them, that is the same thing as having feelings. Including feelings of self-awareness.
I think p-zombine is inherently self-contradictory. It's impossible to have _exactly_ the same behavior as someone truly conscious without actually being conscious.
I doubt it, because my definition implies that consciousness is not that interesting. It's just the feeling of self-awareness, which can be independent of actual self awareness.
If you have a phantom limb, you feel "conscious" of the extra limb even if it's not a real demonstration of self-awareness.
Animal Intelligence is an emergent phenomena resulting from many neurons coordinating. Conciousness is the feeling that all of those subsystems working together as a single thing, even if they aren't
Maybe Jean Luc Picard should've lost that court case. Obviously we as the audience want to have our heroes win against some super callous guy who wants to kill our hero (and audience stand in for anyone who is neurodivergent) Data, but the argument was pretty weak, because Data often acted in completely alien ways that jeopardized the safety of the crew, and the way that those issues came up was due to him doing things that were not compatible with what we perceive as consciousness. But also, in that episode, they make a point of trying to prove that he was conscious by showing that he engaged in behavior that wasn't goal oriented, like keeping keepsakes and mementos of his friends, his previous relationship with Tasha, and his relationship with his cat. That was an attempt at proving that he was conscious too, but the argument from doubt is tough because how can you prove that a rock is not conscious - and if that can't be proved, should we elevate human rights to a rock?
First of all, Data never willingly jeopardized the crew.
Second, they work alongside actual aliens. Being different is not a disqualification. And Maddox isn't callous, he just doesn't regard Data as anything more than "just a machine". A position he eventually changes over the series as he becomes one of Data's friends.
Data is also not a stand in for the neurodivergent. He's the flip of Spock. Spock asks us what if we tried to approach every question from a place of pure logic and repressed all emotion. Data asks us what if we didn't have the option, that we had to approach everything from logic and couldn't even feel emotion. I also feel that equating data to someone who is neurodivergent is kind of insulting as neurodivergent people do have feelings and emotions.
But Data was capable of being fully autonomous and could act with agency. Something a rock can't. Data exhibits characteristics we generally accept as conscious. He is not only capable of accessing a large corpus of knowledge, but he is capable of building upon that corpus and generate new information.
Ultimately, we cannot prove a rock is not conscious. But, as far as we are able to discern, a rock cannot express a desire. That's the difference. Data expressed a desire. The case was whether or not Starfleet had to respect that desire.
> I suppose you could prove it as much as any other feeling, by observing the way that people behave
Look up the term "philosophical zombie".
In a nutshell, you can simulate a conscious being using a non-conscious (zombie) being. It is possible to simulate it so well that an outside observer can't tell the difference. If this is true, then the corollary is that you can't really know if other people are conscious. You can only tell that you are.
For all intents and purposes I might be the only one who has consciousness in the universe, and I can't prove otherwise.
You know you're conscious, but you can't prove the consciousness of anybody around you, nor can you prove your own consciousness to others.
To an external observer, another human's brain and body is nothing more than a complex electrical/chemical circuit. They could easily be a P-Zombie [0], a human body with no consciousness inside, but the circuits are running and producing the appearance of consciousness via reactions to stimuli that mimic a conscious human.
Theoretically, with sufficient technology, you could take a snapshot of the state of someone's brain and use it to predict exactly how they would react to any given stimulus.
Just think about how medications can change the way people behave and the decisions they make. We're all just meat and free will is an illusion.
But getting back on topic...my instinct wants to say that a computer cannot become conscious, but it may merely produce an output that resembles consciousness. A computer is merely a rock that we've shaped to do math. I want to say you can't give consciousness to a rock, but then how did we become conscious? My understanding that life began as primordial soup that resulted in self-replicating molecules that formed protein chains, which over millions of years evolved into single-celled life, which then evolved into multi-celled life, and eventually the complex organisms we have today...how did consciousness happen?
Somehow, consciousness can arise from non-conscious matter. With that knowledge, I do not think it is impossible for a computer to gain consciousness.
But I don't think it'll happen from an LLM.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie
I do not think there is really such thing as a p-zombie. If you simulate feelings and act on them, that is the same thing as having feelings. Including feelings of self-awareness.
I think p-zombine is inherently self-contradictory. It's impossible to have _exactly_ the same behavior as someone truly conscious without actually being conscious.
If you can define consciousness in a way that is independently verifiable, you should definitely do so. World-wide fame and riches await you.
I doubt it, because my definition implies that consciousness is not that interesting. It's just the feeling of self-awareness, which can be independent of actual self awareness.
If you have a phantom limb, you feel "conscious" of the extra limb even if it's not a real demonstration of self-awareness.
Animal Intelligence is an emergent phenomena resulting from many neurons coordinating. Conciousness is the feeling that all of those subsystems working together as a single thing, even if they aren't
Philosophers are known for being rich, that's a claim being made here?
To paraphrase Jean Luc Picard: Am I conscious? Why? Can you prove that I am conscious?
Maybe Jean Luc Picard should've lost that court case. Obviously we as the audience want to have our heroes win against some super callous guy who wants to kill our hero (and audience stand in for anyone who is neurodivergent) Data, but the argument was pretty weak, because Data often acted in completely alien ways that jeopardized the safety of the crew, and the way that those issues came up was due to him doing things that were not compatible with what we perceive as consciousness. But also, in that episode, they make a point of trying to prove that he was conscious by showing that he engaged in behavior that wasn't goal oriented, like keeping keepsakes and mementos of his friends, his previous relationship with Tasha, and his relationship with his cat. That was an attempt at proving that he was conscious too, but the argument from doubt is tough because how can you prove that a rock is not conscious - and if that can't be proved, should we elevate human rights to a rock?
First of all, Data never willingly jeopardized the crew.
Second, they work alongside actual aliens. Being different is not a disqualification. And Maddox isn't callous, he just doesn't regard Data as anything more than "just a machine". A position he eventually changes over the series as he becomes one of Data's friends.
Data is also not a stand in for the neurodivergent. He's the flip of Spock. Spock asks us what if we tried to approach every question from a place of pure logic and repressed all emotion. Data asks us what if we didn't have the option, that we had to approach everything from logic and couldn't even feel emotion. I also feel that equating data to someone who is neurodivergent is kind of insulting as neurodivergent people do have feelings and emotions.
But Data was capable of being fully autonomous and could act with agency. Something a rock can't. Data exhibits characteristics we generally accept as conscious. He is not only capable of accessing a large corpus of knowledge, but he is capable of building upon that corpus and generate new information.
Ultimately, we cannot prove a rock is not conscious. But, as far as we are able to discern, a rock cannot express a desire. That's the difference. Data expressed a desire. The case was whether or not Starfleet had to respect that desire.
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consciousness is the feeling of self awareness. I suppose you could prove it as much as any other feeling, by observing the way that people behave
> I suppose you could prove it as much as any other feeling, by observing the way that people behave
Look up the term "philosophical zombie".
In a nutshell, you can simulate a conscious being using a non-conscious (zombie) being. It is possible to simulate it so well that an outside observer can't tell the difference. If this is true, then the corollary is that you can't really know if other people are conscious. You can only tell that you are.
For all intents and purposes I might be the only one who has consciousness in the universe, and I can't prove otherwise.
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A robot can certainly be programmed to behave in a self-aware way, but making a conclusion about its actual self-awareness would be unfounded.
In general, behaviorism wasn't a very productive theory in humans and animals either.
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