Comment by lysace

6 hours ago

This field moves so quickly. Is this mostly pork or a strategic "they won't be useful, but building up development and production capacity is the goal" kind of thing?

Edit: Foreign perspective: Saab (Sweden) is pitching drones as a service (DaaS?) to Sweden as a way to enable short development cycles, similar to those in Ukraine, while minimizing waste due to purchasing bureaucracy.

I don't think it's pork. Drones have proven their usefulness on the modern battlefield, and those million drones probably cost about as much as about a squadron of F-22s. In a battle between a million drones and 10 F-22s, I'd bet on the drones.

I do think that they're making a mistake by considering drones as ammunition rather than as ammunition delivery vehicles. Because the next phase of the conflict, after both sides have a million drones, comes down to who has better software. If one side has a million drones and the other side is stuck with traditional military hardware like tanks and helicopters and fighter jets, the side with a million drones wins, just like how in WW2, if one side had an aircraft carrier and the other side had a fleet of battleships, the aircraft carrier won. But as soon as both sides started having aircraft carriers, things like the quality of the pilots and planes started mattering. Same here - once you have drone parity, the side with the better software wins.

  • > In a battle between a million drones and 10 F-22s, I'd bet on the drones.

    This is not how militaries work. Military forces exist to complement each other's strengths and weaknesses. Combat is literally the ultimate team sport. A world full of drones still has a need for F-22s or similar. Just with proper short-range air defenses around their airfields.

    It's not who has the coolest piece of gear; it's who can employ everything and everyone they have in the most effective fashion to accomplish the goal of national leadership.

    • I don't disagree, but economies also function on tradeoffs. At some point you have to decide whether you allocate the productive capacity of the economy to F-22s or to drones. That "most effective fashion" changes as the technology level of the economy changes.

  • nostrademons says >" In a battle between a million drones and 10 F-22s, I'd bet on the drones."<

    Timing!

    F-22s could destroy drone factories, drone manufacturers' supply chains, factories, etc. A million drones don't just appear in the air battle-ready. And vice-versa.

    So it boils down to timing and finding the right tool for the job.

    • However it's certainly easier to spread drone manufacturing out. And multiple sources for the same part versus F-22s convoluted and highly specialised supply chain.

      Turns out when you don't have a human in an aircraft that you need to keep alive, you can get away without a lot.

  • I Ukraine would have had 10 F-22s with munitions and supply chain the war would have ended long ago.

Ukraine could go through 1M drones in 2-4 months. This isn’t a strategically meaningful stockpile. I think this is just to address our military technology deficit and get drones into training exercises and evaluate vendors. I don’t expect the US to ever again produce any weapon systems at scale beyond policing operations.

  • Yes, if they are capable enough. I get the feeling they iterate very quickly there. Is that compatible with US procurement procedures?

Companies like Anduril Industries and Skydio are quickly advancing in this field. I think they will be billion dollar companies eventually solely based off their drone tech.

Little of column A, little of column B.

The only way you don't see the value of drones is if you were knocked into a coma in January 2022 and just woke up. The US can make good weaponry if it keeps the usual bureaucratic shitheadery and cronyism to a manageable level. Only time will tell if that plays out.