Comment by 12_throw_away
3 months ago
In this big hardware refresh, honestly most excited about finally getting a new steam controller [1], which feels like it might finally give us a better, more extensible standard than the extremely outdated XInput protocol (which still doesn't even support motion controls)
In my dream world, hardware enthusiasts would be constantly creating absolutely crazy game controllers with bizarre combinations of inputs that look nothing like an xbox 360 controller. There'd be a universal input protocol that would allow for self-describing gamepads with arbitrary numbers of digital buttons, analog sticks and triggers, touchpads, mouse inputs, haptics, gyro sensors, levers, sliders, wheels, etc. etc.
I realize this may not be practical, but it's kind of weird that PCs have been more or less stuck with a protocol designed for XBox 360 controllers for 2 decades now, while the locked-down console space is seeing much more experimentation and innovation around input. The original steam controller at least hinted at being sort of an open platform for this sort of thing, although it didn't really take off. Fingers crossed for the new version.
It's because the two-thumbstick, 8 face buttons, 2 shoulder and 2 trigger form factor covers so many games there's not been a real reason for super wacky controllers. They kind of hit it out of the park on the 360 design and the only real sticking point left is the exact ergonomics which mostly fall into the PS thumbstick position (both lower) vs XBox position (left high and right low).
One big reason would be that the 360 controller was when they first made it standard USB to connect, and introduced Xinput with the standard set of inputs for games to target. I expect most gamers wouldn't find it pleasant if they had to assign buttons and axis before the joypad would be active/useful, then hitting play and trying to remember what JOY_5 mapped to as used to be needed with directinput.
1 reply →
The Xbox controller doesn't even have a gyro. Xbox controller design is completely stagnant.
6 replies →
USB HID actually works pretty much how you describe, for instance a Physical Descriptor can contain metadata about which body part a button/control is supposed to be used with.
It's extremely complicated however (like many things USB), which is probably why everything just emulates an XBox 360 controller like you said.
It's related to XInput making that easier option on Windows, from my understanding.
Especially if you supported both XBox and Windows.
So the only complex HID game controllers are for very much enthusiast setups, which are rare enough to trip things like absurd assumptions in HID drivers in some systems (the joystick+throttle I have used to break linux HID driver because someone decided to statically allocate possible amounts of joystick buttons per device...)
I'm happy we stumbled into in a state where you can buy a controller and plug it into your computer and it'll likely work hassle-free with basically all of your games. And I think that's what most people care about, more than being able to use wacky controllers with extra buttons.
Hell, configuring my own controls for a game is one of my least favorite things to do. I haven't even played the game yet, I don't know what button should do what!
The way it is, the devs know what kind of controller everyone will likely be using, they can figure out their ideal mapping for how the buttons should be used, and we all have an easy time using our controllers.
Maybe with 10 fingers' budget, considering that at least three per side must hold the device, it's the most rational setup to allow for reaching two directional pucks and some buttons?
It looks way too chunky, just like the original Steam Controller, Steam Deck or original duke Xbox controller. Not everybody has Jack Reacher hands.
Microsoft really did it right with the XSX controller. They took the old X360 / Xone design (perfect for large and medium hands) shrunk it slightly and then added cut-outs and and angled button surfaces (perfect for medium and small hands). The Elite is similarly good, with the back buttons being elongated and thin, meaning everyone can reach them comfortably without them getting in the way.
I own a steam controller and have been using it for multiple years. It's actually really comfortable with the way it sits in my hand. Far more comfortable than whatever sony had going on with the PS4 dualsense stuff
My kids have been using the steam deck since they were 3 years old. Granted, their hands were a bit too small but the Deck is way more manageable than it appears.
You do not need big hands to use a classic steam controller, you just need to shift your grip. It's actually hard to use a steam controller with big hands. With long thumbs, the proper grip doesn't land your thumbs in the middle of the track pads.
Failing to better communicate the proper grip for the steam controller was a real fuck up on valve's part though. They should have tried to communicate it through design, making it harder to hold wrong.
I am kind of concerned about the size of the new controller, but valve seems to have decided there's no place in the market for a controller without sticks.
As someone who has big hands (not chunky, just long fingers), I find the Steam Deck sooo comfortable and satisfying to hold. I still use my Nintendo Switch from time to time, but holding it now feels like it was designed for a child (which it was!).
Maybe in size, but at least by weight, it's not bad at all.
Steam Controller weight: 292g.
Nintendo Switch 2 controller: 235g.
Sony Playstation 5 DualSense controller: 280g. DualSense Edge: 322g.
Xbox Wireless controller: 280g. Wireless Elite series 2: 345g.
SInput recently released and got supported by SDL, which plenty of games, but also Steam Input uses. So you can already use SInput in Steam Input. Better than XInput for sure.
https://docs.handheldlegend.com/s/sinput/doc/sinput-hid-prot...
I don't think Steam has ever published specs for their protocol. And without Steam, their old controller would fallback to a mouse/keyboard mode. The Linux kernel drivers (that didn't require Steam) were reverse engineered. Hori released a Steam Controller recently. Even that still had an XInput fallback switch.
I love my OG steam controller still. I can't tell if this new one has the dual stage triggers like the og (like if there's an additional click on full trigger pull).
I used that to set things like boost in rocket League and it felt super intuitive.
First thing I checked for! I feel like it's such a niche feature but also distinctive. It's actually a "necessity" for a proper Gamecube emulation experience, which has the two stage shoulder buttons.
Like you, I also used this for boost on Rocket League and it was surprisingly intuitive. You can map it to the triggers lowest threshold to emulate it but without the tactile bump to rest against it just won't work.
According to digital foundry it does have dual stage triggers
Praise Gaben. That's the one thing I've needed in any replacement Steam Controller and Valve finally did it before the last of my OG Controllers gave up the ghost.
1 reply →
No mention of dual stage trigger though, which was my cheat code in rocket league to have one button for accelerate and boost
Wow lol. I just posted the exact same comment, there are dozens of us! I literally cannot play rocket league without the steam controller for this reason.
Also set rotate left and right to the grip triggers (roll in aviation terms I guess).
You can set a dual-stage trigger in Steam Input binding with any controller its trigger range, its not something unique to the Steam Controller.
Sure, but having a tactile bump in the travel makes it that much easier. I can see the argument that it might seem overcomplicated or confusing to typical users though.
2 replies →
Steamdeck has the dual stage triggers right? (Though maybe just in software?) I'd be shocked if the new controller is less capable than that.
Hoping it's there just not mentioned.
This controller seems more like it's going for parity with the Deck, which doesn't have dual stage triggers. I wouldn't get your hopes up.
I've been using a Stadia controller with my Steam Deck OLED but finally it'll have a worthy upgrade.
I just hope they give us an option to buy a controller with the face buttons in the "Nintendo" order rather than the "Xbox" order. Like how the 8bitdo pro comes in two versions. The only console I actually still care about these days is the Switch/Switch 2, so it would be nice to not have the button placement suddenly reversed when switching between controllers.
https://www.8bitdo.com/pro2/
This doesn't help with the actual button printing, but you can set any controller to use Nintendo layout in Steam input
I'm just hoping it has a standalone "pretend it is an xbox/generic controller" mode that doesn't rely on steam, so I can bring it to friends easily.
All you need is good HID driver in OS... unless the application hardcodes expectations about XBox controller
Yeah I said xbox beacause whatever, but I'm just worried that Valve, while they are usually consumer-friendly never added a standalone gamepad mode to the controller directly and it is always reliant on Steam (and so you need to do tricks like using GlosSI[0] to use it outside).
And at the same time, if you just plug in your controller while holding the right trigger, it acts as a usb drive where you can just replace (and grab it's original) firmware, so there have been some efforts.
I at least want that from the new one, at the very least.
[0] https://github.com/Alia5/GlosSI
1 reply →
Same here. The trackpads on the steam deck work great. Might get this for docked mode. Kinda wish a splittable controller was more common for ergonomics ( not great to be clenching your chest on a centered object like that for hours on end, similar to non-split keyboards ). Seems like split controllers are still reserved for VR and nintendo switch style systems for now…
Can't you just use joycons without a Switch or VR controllers without a headset on PC?
If Valve can push a new standard that actually takes modern input seriously and gives devs better tooling, I'd be all for it
The trackpads are a deal breaker for me
They should have put them just above the joysticks, like the PS5 controller
Better, they should have made them detachable with a magnet, similar to the Switch JoyCon's system, what a missed opportunity
> They should have put them just above the joysticks, like the PS5 controller
I don't understand how that would be in any way ergonomic. The new Steam Controller's layout has a proven track record with the Steam Deck, which is essentially identical. It allows you to play KB&M games like Alpha Centauri on the Steam Deck without any external peripherals. It would be utterly unplayable if the trackpads were in the same place as the PS5's pad, which is basically just used to open a menu or map or for gimmicky in-game gestures.
I found the original Steam Controller's trackpad placement to be just about perfect.
I wonder how this will compare to the Dual Sense; the haptics on that would be tough to give up!
Isn't the lack of extensibility kind of the point?
It forces everyone to make the same controller, so the developer knows what the user will have.
I'm really disappointed that the new controller takes AA batteries though.
Maybe more electronics should do this to avoid so much electronic waste as when the built in battery dies, it becomes junk.
i love it... I have a whole set of fujitsu/eneloop NiMH batteries
The steam controller has a rechargable battery, maybe you're thinking of the steam frame controllers?