Comment by CobrastanJorji
3 months ago
> Install your own apps, or even another operating system. Who are we to tell you how to use your computer?
From your mouth to Tim Cook's ear, friend.
3 months ago
> Install your own apps, or even another operating system. Who are we to tell you how to use your computer?
From your mouth to Tim Cook's ear, friend.
I haven't gamed in almost a decade but what an exciting time to be alive as a PC gamer:
- almost every classic console is easy to emulate
- most modern consoles are, less-legally, emulatable
- we have thorough archives of Flash games and ofc almost all non-flash web games are still functioning
- cross compatibility across OS's has never been better
And, best of all, almost all of this is achievable on Linux! You can also plug in almost any controller, VR headset, or monitor/projector. Remote gaming has also made incredible progress allowing gamers to access their expansive libraries while not even at home.
In fact, I can't think of a single thing a console can do that a PC can't
> In fact, I can't think of a single thing a console can do that a PC can't
Play current Nintendo game cards (and run the eShop etc.) without headaches or workarounds of dubious legality?
Run your whole PSN library reliably, without headaches or workarounds?
Full game system (with decent 4K in the case of PS5) for the price of a GPU?
Work out of the box without messing with it?
Yes it's true. Emulators still have trouble getting around DRM and console-exclusives
But think about it this way. A PC can run PS3 games but a PS4 can't. A PC can run xbox 360 games but an xbox one can't.
I think all the console-exclusives out there are more than made up for by PCs being the ultimate backward-compatible gaming system
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> Run your whole PSN library reliably, without headaches or workarounds?
Can your ps5 run all ps1, ps2, ps3 and ps4 games?
> Full game system (with decent 4K in the case of PS5) for the price of a GPU?
Not with current gen AAA, but older titles - yes.
> Work out of the box without messing with it?
Absolutely, yes. SteamOS/Bazzite literally just works.
That single thing is great UX.
While I personally very much enjoy all of the things I can do on PC and Steam Deck, I can definitely understand why my wife - who's not as technically inclined - prefers the PS5.
> - most modern consoles are, less-legally, emulatable
wheres the PS4 or like, any xbox emulator?
It's just Nintendo that has modern, usable emulators for most of the games you'd want to play. xbox never got lucky for basically any of their consoles and Sony never got anything usable after PS3.
> wheres the PS4
- early days, but ShadPS4
> any xbox emulator
- OG XBox: xemu
- XBox 360: xenia
- XBox 1: early days but WinDurango and XWine1
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> wheres the PS4 or like, any xbox emulator?
There are probably 10 exclusives combined on PS4 and Xbox, even less worth emulating. Everything else is already available on PC.
Consoles are just loss leaders for software now. Hot take: this is true of the Steam Deck and Machine as well. Yes you can play games from other vendors, but PC gamers are very loyal to Steam and many will never bother. I imagine at least half of steam deck users just use it like a console, not like a PC.
I don't see a reason not to be loyal to Steam. I probably spend just as much if not more than console gamers but in return I get so much more value.
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I guess to get their stores on the platform, Epic Games etc will need to create officially supported Linux stores.
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> Consoles are just loss leaders for software now.
Maybe software is just a link in the chain to subscriptions.
> almost every classic console is easy to emulate
Yes, but unless you have a library from back in the day classic console games are hard to find and/or expensive. Try finding a copy of Biker Mice From Mars, for example.
My friend,
https://www.google.com/search?q=Biker+Mice+From+Mars+rom
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That said, when are we going to get a public release for SteamOS? …There’s a joke somewhere about them reaching SteamOS 3
It's always been public:
https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/65B4-2AA3-5F37-42...
https://gitlab.com/evlaV/holo-PKGBUILD
> https://gitlab.com/evlaV/holo-PKGBUILD
So to summarize: Valve provides source code for what they distribute, in compliance with the GPL, but this person went on a personal crusade to demand they open up their private GitLab to the world?
There appears to be some interesting history here, but this takes the cake as the weirdest README I've ever seen in a git repo.
The writing is impenetrably wordy and filled with excessive bolding and parentheticals. It goes completely off track and turns into an extremely long rant that implores the reader to "abstain from procreation", among other things. There are hundreds of links and hundreds of quotes mixed into long-winded sections about the author's self-importance.
Does anyone have a link to a more down to earth, less self-important, and more importantly concise explanation of what's going on?
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> These public repositories (@gitlab.com/evlaV) are an unmodified 1:1 public copy/mirror of Valve's latest (currently private) SteamOS 3.x (holo) GitLab repositories
This sure reads like it's private
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The installer is here: https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/65B4-2AA3-5F37-42...
The sources of the packages are here: https://steamdeck-packages.steamos.cloud/archlinux-mirror/so...
And for the record most packages come directly from Arch Linux, unmodified.
That is not for desktops. I would assume they meant a proper steamOS desktop release. We haven’t seen one in many years and the previous one is basically useless for most people.
Many of us have been waiting for a proper release for a LONG time. Bazzite is nice but I want to see what valve does next.
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I have a SFF pc with an AMD GPU and AMD CPU both with better specs that the new Steam Machine just waiting for them to release a standalone installer for SteamOS :(
I just use vanilla debian and Steam works great. Just set it to launch steam on login and set your system to auto-login, that should get you most of the way.
You can use the Steam Deck recovery image to flash an SSD with SteamOS. It's what those of us on other handhelds do.
Have you tried Bazzite? It’s basically a drop-in replacement. It’s based on Fedora’s Atomic stuff instead of Arch, but if it wasn’t for the logo at the start, I’d be hard pressed to notice I was using it and not vanilla SteamOS.
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Have you tried CachyOS? May get the results you are looking for with Desktop or even Handheld addition.
Half-Life 3 confirmed
Yeah, imagine if you could install a different operating system on your Mac! What a world that would be!
Worth noting that this is a dig against the other consoles which do not allow this, not Apple who (in part) does.
Apple giving you more than consoles do is damning with faint praise, the Mac bootloader is technically open but without any public hardware documentation it's borderline impossible to do anything useful with that. Asahi have done incredible work but even they are still catching up with the M3, nevermind the current M5.
Apple can revoke it at any time. If a future update disabled or changed iBoot, there is no guarantee Linux would ever run again (unlike UEFI Macs).
Valve is not like Apple, they treat UEFI as a default.
They can afford to make a big song and dance about this because chances are they are not selling the hardware at a loss and they have the regular steam store to offset the short term costs. If they were selling the hardware at a loss, I think their marketing trying to sell this device would be very different.
they probably will handle it like with the Steam Deck
- no loss
- but small profit margin anyway, to max reduce the price, to max increase adoption/reach
for Valve people using Steam on non Windows platforms is more important then making a big buck from Steam Machines (because this makes them less dependent on Windows, MS has tried(and failed) to move into the direction of killing 3rd party app stores before, and Windows has gotten ... crappy/bloated/ad-infested which is in the end a existential risk for Valve because if everyone moves away from PC gaming they will lose out hugely)
Is Apple selling their hardware at a loss?
No, but I think the primary comparison is meant to be other major consoles (xbox, playstation, nintendo)
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I know you are being rhetorical but for reference, of course not, their margin on hardware is 36%
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Switch was always sold for more than component and manufacturing cost. PS4 crossed the threshold quickly (per Sony iirc?)
However, that ignores R&D costs which presumably have to be amortized, largely through game sales and platform fees. The same is true for other platforms like iOS.
Will it be possible to play retroarch games too? (i.e. the old SNES/NES games) etc. ?
Retroarch is already on Steam as well as other emulators.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1118310/RetroArch/
Even if you didn't want to use the Steam versions. Steam OS is essentially a customised Arch Linux and you can install stuff as you would on other Linux distros e.g. via packages and flathub. Basically it is a regular computer underneath. That is why I am very excited about this Steam box.
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/guides/view/how-to-install-ext...
Isn't SteamOS immutable? Can you layer packages on it like you can with Fedora Silverblue?
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I sure have installed a bunch of emulators on my Deck. It’s not too hard to get individual games to show up in the main Steam menu, iirc. Haven’t really fiddled with them since initial setup though.
And Sundar's too with the latest BS about Android sideloading.
It may be too late, but its probably a good idea to to shift the language and start saying installing software on your own device. Google likes the term sideloading because it implies its a weird hack to not get all your software from their store.
Tbf at least Android is open source and AOSP itself doesnt have this limitation
Sort of. Google has slowly migrated all essential services into closed source libraries they control.
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Is Google going to require that device makers provide unlocked bootloaders?
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Tbf I haven’t heard any news that Alphabet is requiring all sellers that paid off phones to be able to change to AOSP.
Macs do allow both of those things.
Valve is even borrowing some of the work done for the Mac version of Linux to add support for Proton on ARM hardware.
> Gaming on Linux on M1 is here! We’re thrilled to release our Asahi game playing toolkit, which integrates our Vulkan 1.3 drivers with x86 emulation and Windows compatibility.
https://rosenzweig.io/blog/aaa-gaming-on-m1.html
> Gaming on Linux on M1 is here! We’re thrilled to release our Asahi game playing toolkit
That certainly isn't thanks to Apple
Apple gets the credit for designing a bootloader that allows you to run a third party unsigned OS without degrading device security when you do boot into MacOS.
Applying the security settings per partition instead of per device is much more flexible, and you don't have to worry about Microsoft controlling which OS signing keys are valid.
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Apple allow this kind of thing only on Mac and while also ensuring it does not happen by providing 0 documentation and by not contributing to any outside project. FEX was not made as part of the Asahi Linux project btw. Please inform yourself before making statements
If this is your take on it, enjoy the surveillance state and walled garden Apple has surrounded you with. There is no comparison with Steam and Valve compared to "gaming" on Apple. Literally apples and oranges. And in this case the Apple is soft and tasteless.
Bro. I played what I consider a basic game, Inscryption, on my MacBook Pro M4 Pro with 24Gb and that thing sounded like an aircraft taking off. ...meanwhile the weak sauce Steamdeck plays it flawlessly. Fan hardly even spins up. There is a lot of work to do IMO on the Mac front. I doubt Apple cares.
I've played much more graphically complex games on my M1 MacBook Pro with 16GB ram and _not_ had that issue. I think the makers/porters of Inscryption are to blame for your issue, not Apple.
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Shrug. I think Minecraft qualifies as basic, and it runs just fine on a five year old M1 Air.
It can also depend on how much effort the developer has put into a particular platform. Macs have not historically had a reputation as being a big market for games, not even in a relative sense, so some developers may not much effort into a Mac port.
There is no "Mac version of Linux"
Asahi Linux is Linux specifically made to run on the M-series Mac hardware, so if that's not a Mac version of Linux, what is?
That is not 100% correct. Apple is slowing closing in the walls on a general purpose computer and preventing the bypassing of Gatekeeper with the execution of unsigned applications to _protect the children._ [0] [1] [2] [3]
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45907259