Comment by jchw
12 hours ago
One thing that makes Cloudflare worse for home usage is it acts as a termination point for TLS, whereas Tailscale does not. If you use a Tailscale Funnel, you get the TLS certificate on your endpoint. With Cloudflare, they get a TLS certificate for you, and then strip and optionally re-add TLS as traffic passes through them.
I actually have no idea how private networks with WARP are here, but that's a pretty big privacy downgrade for tunneling from the Internet.
I also consider P2P with relay fallback to be highly desirable over always relaying traffic through a third party, too. Firstly, less middlemen. Secondly, it continues working even if the coordination service is unavailable.
I ended up building something in this space recently (TunnelBuddy – https://www.tunnelbuddy.net I’m the author) that lets you use a friend’s machine as an exit node over WebRTC.
One of the design decisions I made was P2P or nothing: there’s a small signalling service, but no TURN/relay servers. If the peers can’t establish a direct connection, the tunnel just doesn’t come up.
The trade-off is fewer successful connections in weird NAT setups, but in return you know your traffic never transits a third-party relay – it goes straight from your client to your friend’s endpoint.
For that kind of end-to-end encryption I use pinggy.io tls tunnels.
I generally prefer tailscale and trust them more than cloudflare to not rug-pull me on pricing, but the two features that push me towards cloudflared is the custom domains and client-less access. I could probably set it up with caddy and some plugins, but then I still need to expose the service and port forward.
I'm definitely not trying to dissuade anyone from using Cloudflare, just making sure people realize the potential privacy implications of doing so. It isn't always obvious, even though some of the features pretty much require it (at least to be handled entirely on Cloudflare's side. You could implement similar features that are split between the endpoint and the coordination server without requiring full TLS stripping. Maybe Tailscale will support some of those as features of the `serve` server?)
> client-less access
JFYI, Tailscale Funnels also work for this, though depending on your use case it may not be ideal. Ultimately, Cloudflare does handle this use case a bit better.
Tailscale funnels do work, but it's public only. No auth.
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Zero Trust, except for the trust in Cloudflare.
Tunneling p2p with relay fallback is essentially what connet [1] aspires to be. There are a lot of privacy/security benefits exposing endpoints only to participating peers. You can either run it yourself or use hosted version [2].
[1] https://github.com/connet-dev/connet
[2] https://connet.dev
The other option from this great list https://github.com/anderspitman/awesome-tunneling which seems to meet both sets of goals is NetFoundry.
1. End-to-end encryption.
2. Performance and reliability. 100+ PoPs in all major clouds running their data plane routers if they host (still E2EE), or run routers anywhere if you self-host. Dynamic routing to find best paths across the routers.
TLS termination is neither required nor enabled by default, right?
For tunnels many of the features basically have to work this way, so I'd be surprised if you could avoid it. It's also impossible to avoid if you use normal Cloudflare "protected" DNS entries. You can use Cloudflare as just a DNS server but it's not the default, by default it will proxy everything through Cloudflare, since that's kind of the point. You can't cache HTTP requests you can't see.
Correct. We run it without it and just use the DNS filtering aspect.
How does it do DNS filtering without TLS interception - takeover for DNS resolution?
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