Comment by OptionOfT

You realize that you can copy files gl and from other providers like Google Drive, Dropbox etc from the files app on iOS just like you do on any GUI and you can also copy files from the iPhone by just plugging in a USB C mass storage device?

Despite others thinking you’re crazy, I think you are right. I remember the start of the smartphone era where many of my relatives switched to iPhone because "you know where the pictures are going and where to find them". The worst offender was my dad that had a Samsung phone running windows phone 6 (with an actual start menu) where you had to dig through folders to find jpeg files.

But what they own is files. Most users aren't interested in mutual funds, but that doesn't mean they don't want them in their retirement portfolio.

And files…

One reason I'll never own an apple device, and prefer buying more expensive more open competition. Its just a red line - I own the device by law, if you bend backwards to prevent me from using it via ways that it supports by principle, your product doesn't exist for me.

A file system and its files are a very simple abstraction that lets us organize these exact things.

I understand that some people get confused and overwhelmed by a directory structure, but I see that as an education problem, not a UX problem. I was taught all of this in elementary and middle school computer classes in the '90s and early '00s. Having this knowledge early on made me less afraid of my computer, made it feel less like a magical black box, and gave me the confidence to learn more complex topics on my own.

Computers become way more capable when the people using them understand fundamentals like directory structures and command line usage. I don't think either of these things are as difficult to learn as reading, writing, and arithmetic (especially if you already have a base level education in those three things).

If more "everyday people" just had a little bit more knowledge about these things, they would be able to do way more with their computers with less of a reliance on proprietary solutions that funnel them down whatever path makes someone else the most money.

... This is a joke... Right?

iOS isn't just a phone OS.

Saying "I'm not sure if Android has caught up" when Android is decades ahead of Apple in that regard is some kind of... something.

Whenever I'm forced to help with iPhones, I'm baffled how hard everything is. And I had my own iPhones previously. Download a file, unpack it and open in an app is an exercise is frustration, and that's just hoping that I will find the file due it being newest. Working with directories and old files properly, like on Android, I'm not sure if its even possible on iOS. And all that with a crappy keyboard with hidden numbers and special symbols, making searching even harder.

Was the list time you had an Android pre-2017?

It was around that time it (Files app) got a major refresh.

Try connecting to a WebDAV server on File. It's possible but it's shitty. And try using Syncthing on iOS to keep your files synced across devices without having them uploaded to servers you don't control.

Also, on Android, you can choose any file explorer. You're stuck with Files and it sucks (but it looks nice).

I'm pretty sure that iOS only has a file explorer app because Android supported it.

There was almost a whole decade there where Apple pretended that the feature just didn't need to exist.

Which apps?

Lets just zoom into a single use case. The ability of the user to buy a 3rd Party watch that integrates with their phone:

* Apple doesn't allow 3rd Party watches to send text messages. The Apple Watch is allowed to do so.

* Apple doesn't allow 3rd Party to take actions on notifications. The Apple Watch is allowed to do so.

* If you want to use the internet on your watch, you must: 1) install a 3rd party app, 2) keep that app open. Closing the app closes the connection to the internet. The Apple Watch does not have this restriction.

* 3rd Party watches cannot detect if you are using your phone. This means that they will notify users of notifications even if the user is looking at the notification. The Apple Watch does not have this restriction.

* Apple does not have ‘interprocess communication’(IPC) like Android.

* Apple restricts making 3rd Party App Stores. This makes it difficult to make a community of people making watch faces.

All points come from Pebble's blog [1]. This is just a single type of integration that Apple intentionally makes difficult, there are many others (e.g. 3rd Party Photos App, ...)

[1] https://ericmigi.com/blog/apple-restricts-pebble-from-being-...

On iPhones you can't install software except through the app store

let me list some things I can do on android which I cannot do on iOS:

* Install real mobile firefox, including installing firefox addons I've built for myself. Firefox on iOS is a safari skin

* Install web browser security updates without also updating my entire OS. On Android, firefox is an app. on iOS, safari is a part of the OS that cannot be updated independently

* Install an open source app my friend built without paying $100/year or having to reload it every 7 days

* Build and install an app without owning a macbook or other macOS device, just using linux

* Filter notifications to my garmin smartwatch by-app

* Change the messenger app that handles SMS

* Have a notification center that syncs between linux and my phone (i.e. KDE Connect doesn't work https://invent.kde.org/network/kdeconnect-ios#known-behavior... )

* Have reliably working file-syncing (i.e. syncthing for iOS) because background tasks are something you can do well in android, and barely at all in iOS

* Have access to the source code to debug and fix problems

* Have the ability to flash my own custom kernel / rom (not all android devices, but many)

.... Really, not being able to write and install my own app without paying apple $100, and without owning a macbook is the big dealbreaker, followed by iOS restricting APIs needed to do all sorts of things like proper notification handling, proper NFC, etc etc.

It amazes me that so many people on the "hacker news" forum are okay with their primary computing device being wildly hostile to the hacker spirit, to the desire to tinker around for fun and learn and hack on things.

Like sharing your WLAN. It works great between iPhones, if you know how it works and the preconditions are fulfilled (it's undiscoverable). You can't share with Android devices by showing them a QR code – which I would consider the "usual" way and which is easy to do on Android devices.

Edit:

Here is the procedure I was talking about and all prerequisites for it to work:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/102635

Bluetooth LDAC would be cool.

It always kind of sucked though. You had to go through the pairing process, and then the transfer was incredibly slow since Bluetooth is very low bandwidth.

It’s still a classic Apple “the open standard sucks so build a proprietary one that’s great but only on iPhone”

You could do it even before phones came with Bluetooth via Infrared. Granted, the two phones had to be placed perfectly for the IR sensors to connect, if you moved them the file transfer would break.

Bluetooth was a huge upgrade because you no longer needed to do that.

I recall getting very surprised when my sister got one of the first Windows phones (one with the tile menu) and it didn’t support this feature.

Is this really a problem with Apple?

Phones other than iPhones can still share files with each other and with computers using Bluetooth. But people instead use apps like WhatsApp or e-mail for file transfers, even in places where iPhone's market penetration is near zero.

And you could tether, though it was complicated. And slow (1xRTT)

Or they could have figured out a new version of MTP that supports basic features like concurrent access and normal metadata. Or they could have gone for SMB/NFS over a virtual network link. Anything but this horrible interface they've doubled down on.