Comment by Herring

5 days ago

I think the point is we’re getting there. These models are growing up real fast. Remember 54% of US adults read at or below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.

> Remember 54% of US adults read at or below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.

The sane conclusion would be to invest in education, not to dump hundreds of billions of llms, but ok

  • Education is not just a funding issues. Policy choices, like making it impossible for students to fail which means they have no incentive to learn anything, can be more impactful.

  • It's not just investing in education, it's using tools proven to work. WA spends a ton of money on education, and on reading Mississipi, the worst state for almost every metric, has beaten them. The difference? Mississipi went hard on supporting students and using phonics which are proven to work. WA still uses the hippie theory of guessing words from pictures (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole_language) for learning how to read.

  • Investing in education is a trap because no matter how much money is pumped into the current model, it’s not making a difference.

    We need different models and then to invest in the successes, over and over again…forever.

    • Because education alone in a vacuum won't fix the issues.

      Even if the current model was working, just continuing to invest money in it while ignoring other issues like early childhood nutrition, a good and healthy home environment, environmental impacts, etc. will just continue to fail people.

      Schooling alone isn't going to help the kid with a crappy home life, with poor parents who can't afford proper nutrition, and without the proper tools to develop the mindset needed to learn (because these tools were never taught by the parents, and/or they are too focused on simply surviving).

      We, as a society, need to stop allowing people to be in a situation where they can't focus on education because they are too focused on working and surviving.

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  • Education funding is highest in places that have the worst results. Try again.

  • In theory yeah, but in practice 54% will also vote against funding education. Catch-22.

    • In WA they always pass levies for education funding at local and state level however results are not there.

      Mississipi is doing better on reading, the biggest difference being that they use phonics approach to teaching how to read, which is proven to work, whereas WA uses whole language theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole_language), which is a terrible idea I don't know how it got traction.

      So the gist of it, yes, spend on education, but ensure that you are using the right tools, otherwise it's a waste of money.

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  • You don't need an educated workforce if you have machines that can do it reliably. The more important question is: who will buy your crap if your population is too poor due to lack of well paying jobs? A look towards England or Germany has the answer.

  • Unfortunately, people are born with a certain intellectual capacity and can't be improved beyond that with any amount of training or education. We're largely hitting peoples' capacities already.

    We can't educate someone with 80 IQ to be you; we can't educate you (or I) into being Einstein. The same way we can't just train anyone to be an amazing basketball player.

    • From what I've read, IQ is one of the more heritable traits, but only about 50% of one's intelligence is attributable to one's genes.

      That means there are absolutely still massive benefits to be had in trying to ensure that kids grow up in safe, loving homes, with proper amounts of stimulation and enrichment, and are taught with a growth, not a fixed potential mindset.

      Sad to say, but your own fixed mindset probably held you back from what you could truly achieve. You don't have to be Einstein to operate on the cutting edge of a field, I think most nobel prize winners have an iq of ~ 120

    • This is extremely not settled science. Education in fact does improve IQ and we don't know how fixed intelligence is and how it responds to different environmental cues.

A question for the not-too-distant future:

What use is an LLM in an illiterate society?

  • Automatic speech recognition and speech to text models are also growing up real fast.

    • But will an illiterate person be able to articulate themselves well enough to get the LLM to do what they want, even with a speech interface?

      Will they possess the skills (or even the vocabulary) to understand the output?

      We won't know for another 20 years, perhaps.

    • Thinking that speech recognise is a solution to the illiterate is like thinking that low code tools can replace traditional programming tools. The bottleneck is and has always been the cognitive capacity limits of your average human. No interface can solve the issue of humans being illiterate

  • > What use is an LLM in an illiterate society?

    The ability to feign literacy such that critical thought and ability to express same is not a prerequisite.