Comment by famouswaffles
2 days ago
>There's nothing to pointlessly waste your time on.
Like Google Search, this does not really matter. Fact is, chatgpt is the 5th most visited site on the planet every month. And it happened in about 3 years. 'Nothing to waste your time on?' Completely irrelevant.
Being the most visited or the most used or the most whatever is absolutely useless information, and you should delete it from your mind.
Any idiot off the street can be the most used website on Earth. Easy - go to my website, and I give you free stuff. So why am I not a billionaire? Because that's a dumbass business model and that won't go anywhere.
The idea that if you just "flood the market" you can be successful is a crock of shit, and I think we're all starting to realize it. It's not difficult, or impressive, or laborious to provide something people want. It's difficult to do it in a way that makes money.
You might say - but what about Spotify? What about Uber? Those companies are not successful. They are just barely profitable, after investment on the order of decades. We don't actually know if a service like Spotify even works long term. It sounds fantastic - pay ten bucks or whatever and get all the music you want.
But has anyone taken a step back and asked - hmm - how do we make money off of this? Because obviously that is not the cost of music, right? And we don't own any of the capital, right? And we don't actually make a product, right, we're just a middle man?
ChatGPT is in a similar predicament. The value of ChatGPT is not the ChatGPT, it's what ChatGPT produces. It's a middle man, operating at massive losses, with absolutely no path towards profitability.
> The value of ChatGPT is not the ChatGPT, it's what ChatGPT produces. It's a middleman...
Spotify and Uber are aggregators with high marginal costs that they do not control. Spotify has to pay labels for every stream; Uber has to pay drivers for every ride. They cannot scale their way out of those costs because they don't own the underlying asset (the music or the labor).
OpenAI is not a middleman; they own the factory. They are "manufacturing" intelligence. Their primary costs are compute and energy. Unlike human labor (Uber) or IP licensing (Spotify), the cost of compute is on a strong deflationary curve. Inference costs have dropped orders of magnitudes in the last couple years while model quality has improved and costs will keep dropping. Gemini's median query costs no more than a google search. LLM inference is already cheap.
> Any idiot off the street can be the most used website on Earth. Easy - go to my website, and I give you free stuff.
If they were only burning cash to give away a free product, you’d be right. But they are reportedly at ~$4B in annualized revenue. That is not "giving away free stuff" to inflate metrics; that is the fastest-growing SaaS product in history.
You are conflating "burning cash to build infrastructure" (classic aggressive scaling, like early Amazon) with "structurally unprofitable unit economics" (MoviePass).
Open AI's unit economics are fine. Inference is cheap enough for ads to be viable enough for profitability as a business today. The costs this article is alluding to ? Open AI don't need to do any of that for tier of models and use-cases they have today. They are trying to build and be able to serve 'AGI', which they project will be orders of magnitudes more costly. If they do manage that, then none of those costs will matter. If they don't, then they can just...not do it. 'AGI' is not necessary for Open AI to be a profitable business.
> But they are reportedly at ~$4B in annualized revenue. That is not "giving away free stuff" to inflate metrics; that is the fastest-growing SaaS product in history.
Right, which is just not very impressive giving how much money they are burning.
> Open AI's unit economics are fine
I disagree, they lose massive amounts of money on every query.
The only way for OpenAI to make money off queries is to make it cost more, but that won't work because they have no moat, and cannot even create a moat because of how LLMs work. Again, the model itself or the interface is worthless, consumers only care about what it produces.
Google, Meta, et al. could trivially overthrow OpenAI in my view. Most users probably wouldn't even notice, because they use other interfaces on top of models.
I also think ads are a dead end. Consumers absolutely will not tolerate advertisements in their LLMs. No student is going to submit an essay which has obvious hints towards Bose making the best speakers. No programmer is going to write code that embeds a Java runtime because Oracle paid for OpenAI ad space. No artist is going to publish art that just so happens to contain lots of references to Coca Cola.
LLM chats are just not like other tools. If Google has ads, they can get in the way, but the core Google thing is not compromised. If an LLM has ads, I can no longer trust ANY of it's output, ever, and it's as good as worthless.
OpenAI might be tempted to do the dark pattern thing and hide their ads as much as possible, but I don't think that will work either. It's just not acceptable for the tool to do that, and I don't think consumers will be stupid enough to fall for it. Already, we are seeing online advertisement rapidly plummet in value due to the sheer volume and amount of scams.
Advertisers don't know that yet, but they will. Google might know it, but they certainly won't say it out loud. I can tell you right now, the average consumer has been so bombarded by shitty ads they've become masterminds. They expertly navigate around them, and elegantly ignore them in their peripheral vision. They know X, Y, Z is a scam. New advertisement mediums shake it up, for a bit, but then those die too. Metrics won't necessarily tell you that, because most users are robots so you wouldn't know.
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