Comment by everdrive
1 day ago
It's important to remember that being a "free thinker" often just means "being weird." It's quite celebrated to "think for yourself" and people always connect this to specific political ideas, and suggest that free thinkers will have "better" political ideas by not going along with the crowd. On one hand, this is not necessarily true; the crowd could potentially have the better idea and the free thinker could have some crazy or bad idea.
But also, there is a heavy cost to being out of sync with people; how many people can you relate to? Do the people you talk to think you're weird? You don't do the same things, know the same things, talk about the same things, etc. You're the odd man out, and potentially for not much benefit. Being a "free thinker" doesn't necessarily guarantee much of anything. Your ideas are potentially original, but not necessarily better. One of my "free thinker" ideas is that bed frames and box springs are mostly superfluous and a mattress on the ground is more comfortable and cheaper. (getting up from a squat should not be difficult if you're even moderately healthy) Does this really buy me anything? No. I'm living to my preferences and in line with my ideas, but people just think it's weird, and would be really uncomfortable with it unless I'd already built up enough trust / goodwill to overcome this quirk.
Bed springs are alternative to the traditional mattresses that contain all kinds of fibers: cotton, wool, hair (horse hair, etc), feathers, hay, kapok, sea grass, etc. In fact, Bed springs are better than any natural fillings for support because these natural fillings compress quickly, some fillings shift. Tufting is a technique to fix the issue of shifting fibers. Pure wool/cotton mattresses need to be opened every year, and re-teased. Good springs (open coil or pocketed coils) are far better than any wool/cotton/hay support.
The modern mattress industry undermined this durability in pursuit of quick profit: springs became thinner and cheaper, and comfort layers were replaced with low-quality foams. That’s why today’s mattresses don’t last the way they used to.
I believe the OP is talking about "Box springs", not spring mattresses. These are boxes that make the bed go higher, and are required for certain types of frames.
Most of the box springs sold today have the box shape, but don't contain springs. They just put slats on the two sides of the box, encased with a fabric. That's why it is better to go with a sturdy frame with slats less than 3 inches apart due to the geometry of the coils in mattresses.
As mattress companies want to cut down the costs, they find cute names to replace the real springs. Leggett & Platt's Weblok is the spring version of foundations: https://beddingcomponents.com/weblok Other foundations LP sell have 'torsion springs'; they are not springs at all. That's why mattress manufacturers just make boxes with slats; if the boxes are thinner, they are called "bunkie boards".
Only luxury mattress makers sell real box springs along with flippable two side mattresses. In the states, at least you see Shifman. Duxiana combines two layers of springs, the bottom layer acting as foundation, the top layer allows zoned flexible springs; a topper sits on the top of these two coil layers.
Even some European mattress makers follow another approach: 5 inch Bonnell/open coils + 5 inch pocket coils + 2 inches of comfort layer--all in a single mattress. Saatva Classic Mattress follows a similar pattern; however they use cheap coils in both layers.
Historically, springs started as box springs (a separate layer); on top of these boxes, one used cotton/wool mattresses. Remember rope beds (you can see them in the third world). Folks just use cotton/wool layers on such rope beds. Instead of rope beds, one uses box springs on a frame. That's an easy replacement. Over the time, spring layer and comfort layers are stitched together. Flippable mattresses need real box springs as well.
European slats (curved slats sold at IKEA for instance) also function as springs for all foam mattresses (latex or non-latex). This is why many local mattress manufacturers in the USA don't recommend European slats for their hybrid mattresses.
> It's important to remember that being a "free thinker" often just means "being weird."
An adage that I find helpful: If everything you think happens to line up with the current platform of one of the political parties, then perhaps you aren't thinking at all.
The inverse is not true however - if you believe nothing either party says, then you're a free thinker. That's not true, you can be equally as empty brained.
> One of my "free thinker" ideas is that bed frames and box springs are mostly superfluous and a mattress on the ground is more comfortable and cheaper.
This is something every one realizes upon adulthood, then renounces it after judgement from parents and lovers.
I suspect this demonstrates your point.
To live freely is reward enough. We born alone, die alone, and in between, more loneliness. No reason to pretend that your friends and family will be there for you, or that their approval will save you. Playing their social games will not garner you much.
Humans are a social species, and quality of relationships is consistently shown to correlate with mental health.
I've seen that in some cases the definition of mental health will explicitly score against things like "lacks close relationships" or "does not seek companionship". So it always seems to me a bit circular to just assert "being more social is more mentally healthy" when the definition of mental health bakes in "being very social".
If I were to define mental health to include "desires and enjoys spending lengths of time in solitude", then I could assert "Humans as a species crave solitude, mental health is shown to directly correlate with the drive and ability to be alone."
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> We born alone
Most mammals are not born alone. And even after being born, humans especially, would die if left alone.
> bed frames and box springs are mostly superfluous and a mattress on the ground is more comfortable and cheaper.
This is basically a Japanese futon. The only con I can think of is the one the other commenter noted, about mold buildup in more humid climates, and that mattresses are usually built assuming a bit of "flex" from the frame+box spring so a mattress on a bare floor might be slightly firmer than you'd expect.
Oh OK you've convinced me, I'll just stop thinking and do whatever the crowd tells me to do!
Sometimes this is excellent advice. Right now "the crowd" is telling you that a healthy diet and exercise regimen is good for you. Or that the earth is a sphere, or that the Earth is more than 4000 years old. etc. If I had to figure those things out all my own own without any help or prior research I would be much less informed.
> bed frames and box springs are mostly superfluous and a mattress on the ground is more comfortable and cheaper
I was also of this persuasion and did this for many years and for me the main issue was drafts close to the floor.
The key reason I believe though is mattresses can absorb damp so you wana keep that air gap there to lessen this effect and provide ventilation.
> getting up from a squat should not be difficult
Not much use if you’re elderly or infirm.
Other cons: close to the ground so close to dirt and easy access for pests. You also don’t get that extra bit of air gap insulation offered by the extra 6 inches of space and whatever you’ve stashed under there.
Other pros: extra bit of storage space. Easy to roll out to a seated position if you’re feeling tired or unwell
It’s good to talk to people about your crazy ideas and get some sun and air on that head cannon LOL
Futon’s are designed specifically for use case you have described so best to use one of those rather than a mattress which is going to absorb damp from the floor.
> The key reason I believe though is mattresses can absorb damp so you wana keep that air gap there to lessen this effect and provide ventilation.
I was concerned about this as well, but it hasn't been an issue with us for years. I definitely think this must be climate-dependent.
Regardless, I appreciate you taking the argument seriously and discussing pros and cons.
> I appreciate you taking the argument seriously
Like I say, I have suffered similar delusion in the past and I never pass up the opportunity to help a brother out
A major con of bedframes is annoying squeaks. Joints bear a lot of load and there usually isn't diagonal bracing to speak of, so they get noisy after almost no time at all. Fasteners loosen or wear the frame materials. I have yet to find one that stays quiet more than a few months or a year without retightening things; but I haven't tried a full platform construction with continuous walls which I expect might work better, but also sounds annoyingly expensive and heavy.
> months or a year without retightening things
Generally manufactures just send things like bolts. Just add your own lock washers or things like teflon washers and these problems tend to go away long term.
I have a metal one from Zinus and it's been 100% silent after almost two years.
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100% agree. Rise above the herd. Do it for yourself.
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Why are you so aggressive?
Contrarianism leads to feelings of intellectual superiority, but that doesn't get you anything if everyone else doesn't also know you're intellectually superior
I’m not, you just aren’t used to honest, weird people.
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Because the world is run by midwits and that makes me sad and angry.
Because normies are a herd of sheep who will drag you down to their level. Only by fighting back can we defend ourselves from this overwhelming majority. You must be aggressive if you wish to stand alone, because to stand alone will always be perceived as such.