Comment by trueno

2 months ago

wasn't there like a drive by maintainer rejection of something rust related that kind of disrupted the asahi project ? i can't say i followed the developments much but i do recall it being some of that classic linux kernel on broadway theater. i also wonder if that was a first domino falling of sorts for asahi, i legitimately can't tell if that project lives on anymore

It involved large parts of the Rust community, and the famous Rust developer Hector Martin (with an alter ego of Asahi Lina, a female vtuber, which he appears irrationally embarrassed about), harassing others.

Even Linus Torvalds called out Hector Martin.

https://lkml.org/lkml/2025/2/6/1292

> On Thu, 6 Feb 2025 at 01:19, Hector Martin <marcan@marcan.st> wrote:

> > If shaming on social media does not work, then tell me what does, because I'm out of ideas.

> How about you accept the fact that maybe the problem is you.

> You think you know better. But the current process works.

> It has problems, but problems are a fact of life. There is no perfect.

> However, I will say that the social media brigading just makes me not want to have anything at all to do with your approach.

> Because if we have issues in the kernel development model, then social media sure as hell isn't the solution. The same way it sure as hell wasn't the solution to politics.

> Technical patches and discussions matter. Social media brigading - no than\k you.

> Linus

https://archive.md/uLiWX

https://archive.md/rESxe

IIRC, it was not about Rust vs. C, but a commotion rooted from patch quality and not pushing people around about things.

Linux Kernel team has this habit of a forceful pushback which breaks souls and hearts when prodded too much.

Looks like Hector has deleted his Mastodon account, so I can't look back what he said exactly.

Oh, I still have the relevant tab open. It's about code quality: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43043312

  • That was a single message in a very large thread. It absolutely was not just about code quality.

    • Yes, that's the entry of the rabbit hole, and reader is advised to dig their own tunnel.

      I remember following the tension for a bit. Yes, there are other subjects about how things are done, but after reading it, I remember framing "code quality" as the base issue.

      In high-stakes software development environments, egos run high generally, and when people clash and doesn't back up, sparks happen. If this warning is ignored, then something has to give.

      If I'm mistaken, I can enjoy a good explanation and be gladly stand corrected.

      This is what happened here. This is probably the second or third time I witness this over 20+ years. Most famous one was over CPU schedulers, namely BFS, again IIRC.

      1 reply →

  • https://lkml.org/lkml/2025/2/6/1292

    • Some pretext: I'm a Rust skeptic and tired of Rust Evangelism Task Force and Rewrite in Rust movements.

      ---

      Yes. I remember that message.

      Also let's not forget what marcan said [0] [1].

      In short, a developer didn't want their C codebase littered with Rust code, which I can understand, then the Rust team said that they can maintain that part, not complicating his life further (Kudos to them), and the developer lashing out to them to GTFO of "his" lawn (which I understand again, not condone. I'd have acted differently).

      This again boils down to code quality matters. Rust is a small child when compared to the whole codebase, and weariness from old timers is normal. We can discuss behaviors till the eternity, but humans are humans. You can't just standardize everything.

      Coming to marcan, how he behaved is a big no in my book, too. Because it's not healthy. Yes, the LKML is not healthy, but this is one of the things which makes you wrong even when you're right.

      I'm also following a similar discussion list, which has a similar level of friction in some matters, and the correct thing is to taking some time off and touching grass when feeling tired and being close to burnout. Not running like a lit torch between flammable people.

      One needs to try to be the better example esp. when the environment is not in an ideal shape. It's the hardest thing to do, but it's the most correct path at the same time.

      [0]: https://web.archive.org/web/20250205004552mp_/https://lwn.ne...

      [1]: https://lkml.org/lkml/2025/2/6/404

      29 replies →

Yes.

Linus Torvalds rips into Hellwig for blocking Rust for Linux:

https://lore.kernel.org/rust-for-linux/CAHk-=wgLbz1Bm8QhmJ4d...

    The fact is, the pull request you objected to DID NOT TOUCH THE DMA LAYER AT ALL.
    It was literally just another user of it, in a completely separate subdirectory, that didn't change the code you maintain in _any_ way, shape, or form.
    I find it distressing that you are complaining about new users of your code, and then you keep bringing up these kinds of complete garbage arguments.
    Honestly, what you have been doing is basically saying "as a DMA maintainer I control what the DMA code is used for".
    And that is not how *any* of this works.

The other person who replied to you is purposefully referencing a different incident.