Comment by UltraSane

5 days ago

Israel was able to monitor communications on the pagers for years and this allowed them to be quite certain of who they were targeting.

"Footage from Reuters, Al Jazeera, AP, and local Lebanese reporters shows numerous injured civilians"

How do you know they were civilians?

How do YOU know they were terrorist? What would you call people who were around the individual with that pagers?

  • Mostly, "uninjured".

    • So, we established that there were injuries among people surrounding those with the pagers. Therefore, the parent comment’s claim was false — the explosions could hurt people nearby and weren’t small enough to affect only the combatant.

      My other points still stand, but it’s strange to me that the argument seems to go (not necessarily from you, but from other commenters above):

      The explosions were too small to hurt others, so the reported number of civilians injured must be false.

      We see that the explosions did hurt civilians.

      Well, only a small fraction — the numbers must still be false.

      Can you see how this is moving the goalposts? The argument shifted from “the explosives were so precise that Israel must have known exactly who was targeted, and those injured were combatants,” to, in the grandparent comment:

      How do you know they were civilians?

      Now we see that civilians were present and injured. Perhaps you're correct that the videos show only a small number, but the videos still confirm the core point: civilians were harmed.

      @tptacek, I don’t have a problem discussing this with you, but each thread you respond to splits off into new points I have to address. It feels like arguing with two people making contradictory claims.

      I’ll leave you with this: the videos show only a minority of the pager detonations. Civilian injuries are most reliably known by Lebanese hospitals and government sources. The idea of detonating explosives in civilian-populated areas without knowing who is immediately around those devices is deeply problematic. And there is no way Israel could have known who would be harmed with any reasonable certainty; the reported numbers only reinforce that fact.

      4 replies →

  • They weren't terrorists they were Hezbollah members during a time when Hezbollah was shooting thousands of missiles at Israel that forced 60,000 people to evacuate. This made them fair targets. The pagers contained about grams of explosives which only injured the person holding it.