Comment by meowface
2 days ago
All I can say is let us all hope this is merely the American decade of humiliation and not the beginning of the American century of humiliation.
2 days ago
All I can say is let us all hope this is merely the American decade of humiliation and not the beginning of the American century of humiliation.
I hope it’s like what happened to countries like England, France, and Spain. You see your empire collapse but the country itself remains intact.
England “gave up” scientific and technological leadership during the 20th century. (That’s a tongue-in-cheek take on it, don’t read too much into it.)
It worked out well for Europe because the country that took over its position of leadership position post-WW2 (USA) was aligned with it in all ways (politically, culturally, scientifically, economically), and so (western) European countries could still enjoy all the benefits. It will not be the case this time around, because the next generation of innovation and leadership is going to come from China.
I think that is the most likely outcome. However, if the decline starts occurring too rapidly, I do think violent far-right (and perhaps far-left) paramilitary action could become a major problem, like in 1920s/1930s Germany. Tons of time spent lurking in far-right extremist communities out of morbid curiosity, and the spread of far-right ethnosupremacist sentiment on basically every social media platform, has me concerned.
The good news is those people are fundamentally absolute losers.
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Yes but Spain, England, and France all had decade long declines that reversed. Except you know, at the end. When it didn't reverse.
We are witnessing the end of... something. Is it the end of the Roman Republic or is this the end of the Roman Empire?
Two very different situations despite being so politically fraught and full of change.
> England “gave up” scientific and technological leadership during the 20th century. (That’s a tongue-in-cheek take on it, don’t read too much into it.)
Was forced to give up, due to the economic devastation of WWII, might be more accurate (though of course there were other factors too).
It might be what it takes though, 2nd place (if that), to get the U.S. to stop fucking around.
Usually the opposite of what happens to a power in decline
Quite something to imagine 60 years from now history books (or thought-o-grams) may be written on Gamergate and a microblogging application and a reality TV host ushering in the chain of events that upended the biggest global power.
All I have to say is, don’t blame me. I am an American and didn’t vote for this bullsh*t. Leave me out when you enslave the rest of the Americans lol
> I am an American and didn’t vote for this bullsh*t.
Isn't the whole principle about democracy and freedom that you all stick together no matter what political party/parties is in power? If you're just throwing your hands up in the air because your party isn't the one in control, what kind of democracy is that? The whole point is working together with opponents for common goals.
Otherwise, may I interest you in an insurrection? Pretty hot and trendy these times.
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To be fair, it was pretty much the entire western world fucking around before. Brexit was the first shock but I don't think the world learned many lessons from that. However a lot of western nations are taking the US as a cautionary tale and will learn from US mistakes. So 2nd place might be lucky at this point (assuming we're comparing large trading blocs rather than just countries).
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I think it's very likely counterfactually better than USSR (now Russian) or Chinese hegemony. Imagine if Al Gore had won 2000 - America at the helm while growing increasingly wary of violent foreign interventions seems like the least bad path for Earth. (I am not sure if such a path still remains.)
China ultra-liberalizing and becoming a democracy and then the hegemon could be an okay path but I am not too optimistic about the prospects of those first parts.
The good thing is that we'll be able to fact check this comment in 50 years
> I think it's very likely counterfactually better than USSR (now Russian) or Chinese hegemony.
Why is it either or the other? Just because the US happens to turn inwards and stop acting like the world police, doesn't mean that other countries suddenly start dreaming of world domination. China and Russian both have plenty of problems in their home fronts and surrounding areas.
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As bad as American domination is, wnat's coming after is might easily be worse.
Why?
China is the alternative. How many countries has China waged war against, toppled democratic governments, established puppet março-states and invaded since 1949?
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Worse for US Americans probably - rest of the world? Not so clear cut
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The US has screwed up but to state we've been nothing but bad since 49 is a genuinely revisionist take.
I guess I respect you being honestly pro-war. Not sure that’s what everyone wants.
It's popular to hate the US but I'd like to know what country you think would be better at the role of global hegemon. What country would you suggest would do a better job? Be specific.
That's not a hard question. Any country that invaded, plundered and destroyed democracies less than the US has in the last hundred years.
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It’s a flawed question.
The concept that living in a hegemony is acceptable is incoherent.
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The greatest era of prosperity expansion and peace in world history courtesy of pax Americana. The best decades - measurably - for humanity overall have taken place since the US assumed that role post WW2.
The post WWII peace was made possible due the existence of nuclear weapons. It will go on after the next global power takes over.
Depends on where you were during those decades. If you're in one of the unlucky countries that didn't do what the US wanted you likely suffered enormously.
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> courtesy of pax Americana
Can we back this up? As an american, I'd like to think it's true, but I'd take a historian's viewpoint seriously.
Henry Kissinger? I thought you died!