Comment by yibers
14 hours ago
Ass covering-wise, you are probably better off going down with everyone else on us-east-1. The not so fun alternative: being targeted during an RCA explaining why you chose some random zone no one ever heard of.
14 hours ago
Ass covering-wise, you are probably better off going down with everyone else on us-east-1. The not so fun alternative: being targeted during an RCA explaining why you chose some random zone no one ever heard of.
Places nobody's ever heard of like "Ohio" or "Oregon"?
Yeah, I'm not worried about being targeted in an RCA and pointedly asked why I chose a region with way better uptime than `us-tirefire-1`.
What _is_ worth considering is whether your more carefully considered region will perform better during an actual outage where some critical AWS resource goes down in Virginia, taking my region with it anyway.
IIRC, some AWS services are solely deployed on and/or entirely dependent on us-east-1. I don't recall which ones, but I very distinctly remember this coming up once.
AWS IAM has caused multiple cross-region outages.
CloudFront certificates
Everything new basically, like the AI services.
IAM and Route53 have dependencies on us-east-1.
AWS Organizations/Account management is us-east-1.
And if you want a CDN with a custom hostname and want TLS…you have to use us-east-1.
1 reply →
IAM
> explaining why you chose some random zone no one ever heard of
Is this from real experience of something that actually happened, or just imagined?
The only things that matter in a decision are:
* Services that are available in the region
* (if relevant and critical) Latency to other services
* SLAs for the region
Everything else is irrelevant.
If you think AWS is so bad that their SLAs are not trustworthy, that's a different problem to solve.
I find it funny that we see complaints about why software quality has got worse alongside people advocating to choose objectively risky AWS regions for career risk and blame minimisation reasons.
This was always the case. The OG saying was “no one got fired for buying IBM”. Then it was changed to Microsoft. And so on..
They are for the same reason. How do customers react to either? If us-east-1 fails, nobody complains. If Microsoft uses a browser to render components on Windows and eats all of your RAM, nobody complains.
Oh, people complain. The companies responsible have just gotten to the point where they are so entrenched that they don't need to care at all about customer complaints.
2 replies →
Istr major resource unavailability in US-East-2 during one of the big US-East-1 outages because people were trying to fail over. Then a week later there was a US-East-2 outage that didn't make the news.
So if you tried to be "smart" and set up in Ohio you got crushed by the thundering herd coming out of Virginia and then bit again because aws barely cares about you region and neither does anyone else.
The truth is Amazon doesn't have any real backup for Virginia. They don't have the capacity anywhere else and the whole geographic distribution scheme is a chimera.
This is an interesting point. As recently as mid-2023 us-east-2 was 3 campuses with a 5 building design capacity at each. I know they've expanded by multiples since, but us-east-1 would still dwarf them.
Makes one wonder, does us-west-2 have the capacity to take on this surge?
us-west-2 is indeed very large, but will still not be able to take a full failover from us-east-1
> being targeted during an RCA explaining why you chose some random zone no one ever heard of.
“Duh, because there’s an AZ in us-east-1 where you can’t configure EBS volumes for attachment to fargate launch type ECS tasks, of course. Everybody knows that…”
:p
how about following the well-architected framework and building something with a suitable level of 9s where you can justify your decisions during a blameless postmortem (please stamp your buzzword bingo card for a prize.)
We vibe code everything in flavor of the month node frameworks, tyvm, because elixir is too hard to hire for (or some equally inane excuse)
I look forward to the eventual launch of a new and improved version of your app using electron.
What’s the point in having 64 Gb of DDR5 and 16 cores @ 4.2 GHz if not to be able to have a couple electron apps sitting at idle yet somehow still using the equivalent computational resources of the most powerful supercomputer on earth in the mid 1990s.
I agree with your post conceptually.
However: Don’t underestimate community support (in the areas you’re likely to want it) when comparing development stacks.
This to me was the real lesson of the outage. A us-east-1 outage is treated like bad weather. A regional outage can be blamed on the dev. us-east-1 is too big to get blamed, which is why it should be the region of choice for an employee.
Bizarre way of making decisions.
us-east-2 is objectively a better region to pick if you want US east, yet you feel safer picking use1 because “I’m safer making a worse decision that everyone understands is worse, as long as everyone else does it as well.”
It's about risk profile. The question isn't "which region goes down the least" but "how often will I be blamed for an outage."
If you never get blamed for a US east outage, that's better than us-east-2 if that could get you blamed 0.5% of the time when it goes down and us1 isn't down or etc
1 reply →
If my cloud provider goes down and my site is offline, my customers and my boss will be upset with me and demand I fix it as fast as possible. They will not care what caused it.
If my cloud provider goes down and also takes down Spotify, Snapchat, Venmo, Reddit, and a ton of other major services that my customers and my boss use daily, they will be much more understanding that there is a third party issue that we can more or less wait out.
Every provider has outages. US-east-2 will sometimes go down. If I'm not going to make a system that can fail over from one provider to another (which is a lot of work and can be expensive, and really won't be actively used often), it might be better to just use the popular one and go with the group.
1 reply →
I also don’t understand this.
US-East-2 staying up isn’t my responsibility. If I need my own failover, I’m going to select a different region anyway.
And it’s not like US-East-2 isn’t already huge and growing. It’s effectively becoming another US-East-1.
Why aren't you using IBM cloud?
If IBM still had a good reputation, I probably would.
1 reply →
Bandwidth cost is also another major reason.