Comment by ltbarcly3
2 months ago
Why do you care about the history of a branch? Just look at the diff. Caring about the history of a branch is weird, I think your approach is just not compatible with how people work.
2 months ago
Why do you care about the history of a branch? Just look at the diff. Caring about the history of a branch is weird, I think your approach is just not compatible with how people work.
A well laid out history of logical changes makes reviewing complicated change sets easier. Rather than one giant wall of changes, you see a series of independent, self contained, changes that can be reviewed on their own.
Having 25 meaningless “wip” commits does not help with that. It’s fine when something is indeed a work in progress. But once it’s ready for review it should be presented as a series of cleaned up changes.
If it is indeed one giant ball of mud, then it should be presented as such. But more often than not, that just shows a lack of discipline on the part of the creator. Variable renames, whitespace changes, and other cosmetic things can be skipped over to focus on the meat of the PR.
From my own experience, people who work in open source and have been on the review side of large PRs understand this the best.
Really the goal is to make things as easy as possible for the reviewer. The simpler the reviews process, the less reviewer time you’re wasting.
> A well laid out history of logical changes makes reviewing complicated change sets easier.
I've been on a maintenance team for years and it's also been a massive help here, in our svn repos where squashing isn't possible. Those intermediate commits with good messages are the only context you get years down the line when the original developers are gone or don't remember reasons for something, and have been a massive help so many times.
I'm fine with manual squashing to clean up those WIP commits, but a blind squash-merge should never be done. It throws away too much for no good reason.
For one quick example, code linting/formatting should always be a separate commit. A couple times I've seen those introduce bugs, and since it wasn't squashed it was trivial to see what should have happened.
I agree, in a job where you have no documentation and no CI, and are working on something almost as old or older than you with ancient abandoned tools like svn that stopped being relevant 20 years ago, and in a fundamentally dysfunctional company/organization that hasn't bothered to move off of dead/dying tools in the last 20 years, then you just desperately grab at anything you can possibly find to try to avoid breaking things. But there are far better solutions to all of the problems you are mentioning than trying to make people create little mini feature commits on their way to a feature.
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> A well laid out history of logical changes makes reviewing complicated change sets easier. Rather than one giant wall of changes, you see a series of independent, self contained, changes that can be reviewed on their own.
But this would require hand curation? No development proceeds that way, or if it does then I would question whether the person is spending 80% of their day curating PRs unnecessarily.
I think you must be kind of senior and you can get away with just insisting that other people be less efficient and work in a weird way so you can feel more comfortable?
> But this would require hand curation? No development proceeds that way, or if it does then I would question whether the person is spending 80% of their day curating PRs unnecessarily.
If you’re working on something and a piece of it is clearly self contained, you commit it and move on.
> I think you must be kind of senior and you can get away with just insisting that other people be less efficient and work in a weird way so you can feel more comfortable?
You can work however you like. But when it’s time to ask someone else to review your work, the onus is on you to clean it up to simplify review. Otherwise you’re saying your time is more valuable than the reviewer’s.
> But this would require hand curation? No development proceeds that way, or if it does then I would question whether the person is spending 80% of their day curating PRs unnecessarily.
It's not really hand curation if you're deliberate about it from the get-go. It's certainly not eating up 80% of anyone's time.
Structuring code and writing useful commits a skill to develop, just like writing meaningful tests. As a first step, use `git add -p` instead of `git add .` or `git commit -a`. As an analog, many junior devs will just test everything, even stuff that doesn't make a lot of sense, and then jumble them all together. It takes practice to learn how to better structure that stuff and it isn't done by writing a ton of tests and then curating them after the fact.
> I think you must be kind of senior and you can get away with just insisting that other people be less efficient and work in a weird way so you can feel more comfortable?
Your personal productivity should only be one consideration. The long-term health of the project (i.e., maintenance) and the impact on other people's efficiency also must be considered. And efficiency isn't limited to how quickly features ship. Someone who ships fast but makes it much harder to debug issues isn't a top performer. At least, in my experience. I'd imagine it's team, company, and segment-dependent. For OSS projects with many part-time contributors, that history becomes really important because you may not have the future ability to ask someone why they did something a particular way.
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> No development proceeds that way,
I do this. Also I do not spend 80% of my time doing it. It's not hard, nor is it time consuming.
On the contrary, it seems to me that it is your approach which is incompatible with others. I'm not the same person you were replying to but I want the history of a branch to be coherent, not a hot mess of meaningless commits. I do my best to maintain my branches such that they can be merged without squashing, that way it reflects the actual history of how the code was written.
This is not how code is actually written.
It's how code is written in Google (including their open-source products like AOSP and Chromium), the ffmpeg project, the Linux Kernel, Git, Docker, the Go compiler, Kubernetes, Bitcoin, etc, and it's how things are done at my workplace.
I'm surprised by how confident you are that things simply aren't done this way considering the number of high-profile users of workflows where the commit history is expected to tell a story of how the software evolved over time.
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> Why do you care about the history of a branch?
Presumably, a branch is a logical segment of work. Otherwise, just push directly master/trunk/HEAD. It's what people did for a long time with CVS and arguably worked to some extent. Using merge commits is pretty common and, as such, that branch will get merged into the trunk. Being able to understand that branch in isolation is something I've found helpful in understanding the software as a whole.
> Caring about the history of a branch is weird, I think your approach is just not compatible with how people work.
I get you disagree with me, but you could be less dismissive about it. Work however you want -- I'm certainly not stopping you. I just don't your productivity to come at the expense of mine. And, I offered up other potential (and IMHO, superior) solutions from both developer and system tools.
I suppose what type of project you're working on matters. The "treat git like a versioned zip file" using squashed merges works reasonably well for SaaS applications because you rarely need to roll anything back. However, I've found a logically structured history has been indispensable when working on long-lived projects, particularly in open source. It's how I'm able to dig into a 25 year old OSS tool and be reasonably productive with.
To the point I think you're making: sure, I care what changed, and I can do that with `diff`. But, more often if I'm looking at SCM history I'm trying to learn why a change was made. Some of that can be inferred by seeing what other changes were made at the same time. That context can be explicitly provided with commit messages that explain why a change was made.
Calling it incompatible with how people work is a pretty bold claim, given the practice of squash merging loads of mini commits is a pretty recent development. Maybe that's how your team works and if it works for you, great. But, having logically separate commits isn't some niche development practice. Optimizing for writes could be useful for a startup. A lot of real world software requires being easy to maintain and a good SCM history shines there.
All of that is rather orthogonal to the point I was trying to add to the discussion. We have better tools at our disposal than running `git commit` every 15 minutes.