Comment by landr0id
13 hours ago
Pretty cool for BSH and Miele to hop on a call with the researchers just to make sure there were no issues they were unaware of. Sounded like it was productive and positive for everyone involved. Hopefully they don't start doubling down on hardware security though :p
The optical communication for the Miele was pretty interesting too. I'm assuming it's to prevent moisture from corroding a port of some kind. Does anyone know of other devices this is used in or other benefits to this?
> The optical communication for the Miele was pretty interesting too. I'm assuming it's to prevent moisture from corroding a port of some kind.
IRDA was very popular at one point and still lives on in applications like these. It's an IR serial port hung off a UART. It's stupid simple requiring no cables, pairing, or complex protocol stacks. Some smart phones have IR blasters built in so its a total win for ease of deployment in cases like these.
> I'm assuming it's to prevent moisture from corroding a port of some kind.
The primary value discussed in the talk was electrical isolation since there's mains voltage in the appliance and the potential for shorts or inadequate isolation would require some kind of isolation, so a path that optically isolates the communication makes quite a bit of sense.
I'm also curious if other devices have gone this route.
LG appliances at least used to use acoustic signaling for diagnostics: hold a phone up and the washer makes some modem-esque (I think it’s 4-tone / 4-FSK) noises and the app or technician can diagnose issues. It was originally engineered to even work over voice codecs, so a customer without a smartphone could relay the diagnostic session to a technician.
That's pretty cool. I found a write-up[1] on it but unfortunately didn't come across any examples of the communication.
[1] https://github.com/kabelincho/LG-Smart-Diagnostics-modem
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That's some advanced gatekeeping right there. Where other appliances might have a blink code or several digit error display (Miele) to look up in a manual, the phone method tires you to the manufacturer.
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The absolutely "leetest" thing I have ever seen was a device where the firmware update was to be done by:
1. Hold a button while booting (pretty normal)
2. This reconfigures the circuit path of one of the LEDs so it is reverse-biased to VCC via its resistor and switches one of the microcontroller GPIOs to ADC input
3. You go to a website that plays a strobe pattern (encoding the firmware)
4. You hold that website in front of the LED till other LEDs blink, signifying a successful update
They could have done this using a photodiode, but no, they had to abuse an LED. Not many people are aware that LEDs can in a certain configuration be used to measure light.
>so a customer without a smartphone could relay the diagnostic session to a technician
Do you mean by mimicking the noises themselves?
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Electric meters often blink a signal LED for every X kWh, so other devices can read the signal. I'm not sure if this is used for bidirectional communications, though.
No, but they also have a separate infrared interface for this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_62056
Smart meters have a whole protocol
Alternatively, I guess you could also use really thin cables to carry the low voltage paths; and that act as fuses, if ever a lot of current at high voltage was flowing across them? But probably not very reliable both in regular operation and as fuses.
We have a Miele washing machine and a Miele dryer. Solid machines all around even after years of use.
Fusible traces aren’t uncommon - but they would effectively destroy the device if current limits are exceeded, and they certainly would be if the power supply is non-isolated, so it wouldn’t actually be a solution to the firmware update problem.
The usual solution here is an optical coupling of some kind - optocouplers (a box with a LED, photodiode, and air gap between them) are very common for this purpose, and are an inexpensive and effective option for digital signaling across an isolation boundary.
In this case they’ve basically built a custom optocoupler out of discrete components, which is a bit unusual, but makes sense when you consider the risk of corrosion due to water ingress at the diagnostic ports, and the need to access it while - for example - a dishwasher cycle is running.
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