Comment by satvikpendem

1 month ago

No job is special, even though many programmers like to think of themselves as so. Everyone must learn to adapt to a changing world, just as they did a hundred years ago at the turn of the century.

I was pretty much told this in the 90s that I would have no real stability in life like my parents did and my life would be constant reinvention. That has been spot on.

It is the younger people who started their career after the financial crisis that got the wrong signaling. As if 2010-2021 was normal instead of the far from equilibrium state it was.

This current state of anxiety about the future is the normal state. That wonderful decade was the once in a lifetime event.

  • Yep, could be right. It might have only ever been a few stalwart professions that were expected to be constants. But I think the cost of life during the pre-2010 era absorbed the reasons those anxieties existed, whereas the severity of the rise in that cost of necessities since is the problem. As in, having an expectation of a volatile income-earning life is one thing if a house costs $80k or rent is $400, but having a volatile life with rent for the smallest serviceable apartment being $2-3k, and the same house costing $2m; that lack of stability isn't priced in by the markets

This is always said as if the buggy whip maker successfully transitioned to some new job. Please show me 10 actual examples of individuals in 1880 that successfully adapted to new jobs after the industrial revolution destroyed their old one, and what their life looked like before and after.

'Sure the 1880 start of the industrial revolution sucked, all the way through the end of WW2, but then we figured out jobs and middle class for a short time, so it doesn't matter you personally are being put at the 1880 starting point, because the 1950s had jobs'. Huh?

  • I don't have a dog in this disagreement, but putting the bar at "dig up the personal details of 10 different individual people and the changing dynamics of their lives over decades _starting from 1880_" is a pretty insane ask I'd imagine. How many resources for reliable and accurate longitudinal case studies from the 19th century are there really? I suppose we could read a couple dozen books written around then but that's just making a satisfactory reply so prohibitively time intensive as to be impossible.

    • Indeed, and when 10 were pulled up by zozbot234, they say that doesn't count. This sort of discussion is not really useful in my eyes, shifting goalposts around and not saying what one means.

  • I agree, but I do wonder if because those times were generally less specialized, urbanized, etc.. it would have been more possible to simply pivot to another non-specialized "job", because you were either uneducated and poor and needed to be able to do everything, or born rich and able to do the one special thing your whole life. Like when the buggy whip maker couldn't sell whips anymore, they just did 4 of the other jobs they had to do anyway.

    The classic old person advice is to just walk in somewhere, give the owner a stern handshake, and you got a job, and if that job could pay your mortgage, then problem solved. Whereas now, to become a buggy whip maker (or whatever), we've developed yhe expectation that you go to school for 4 years and start out at the bottom of the income ladder. If the income we need to pay for the basics (which admittedly are different) requires a lifetime of experience, then it's impossible to pivot

  • 1. Samuel Slater: Textile mill worker → Factory founder

    Before: Born to a modest family in England, Slater worked as an apprentice in a textile mill, learning the mechanics of spinning frames.

    After: In 1790 he emigrated to the United States, where he introduced British‑style water‑powered textile machinery, earning the nickname "Father of the American Industrial Revolution." He built the first successful cotton‑spinning mill in Rhode Island and became a wealthy industrialist.

    2. Ellen Swallow Richards: Teacher → Pioneering chemist and sanitary engineer

    Before: Taught school in Massachusetts while supporting her family after her father's death.

    After: Enrolled at MIT (the first woman admitted), earned a chemistry degree, and applied scientific methods to public health, founding the first school of home economics and influencing water‑quality standards.

    3. Frederick Winslow Taylor: Machinist → Scientific management consultant

    Before: Trained as a mechanical engineer and worked on the shop floor of a steel plant, witnessing chaotic production practices.

    After: Developed Taylorism, a systematic approach to labor efficiency, consulting for major firms and publishing The Principles of Scientific Management (1911), reshaping industrial labor organization.

    4. John D. Rockefeller: Small‑scale merchant → Oil magnate

    Before: Ran a modest produce‑selling business in Cleveland, Ohio, struggling after the Panic of 1873 reduced local demand.

    After: Invested in the nascent petroleum industry, founded Standard Oil in 1870, and built a monopoly that made him the wealthiest person of his era.

    5. Clara Barton: Teacher & clerk → Humanitarian nurse

    Before: Worked as a schoolteacher and later as a clerk for the U.S. Patent Office, earning a modest living.

    After: Volunteered as a nurse during the Civil War, later founding the American Red Cross in 1881, turning her wartime experience into a lifelong career in disaster relief.

    6. Andrew Carnegie: Factory apprentice → Steel tycoon

    Before: Began as a bobbin boy in a cotton factory in Scotland, later emigrating to the U.S. and working as a telegraph messenger.

    After: Invested in railroads and iron, eventually creating Carnegie Steel Company (1901), becoming a leading philanthropist after retiring.

    7. Lillian M. N. Stevens: Seamstress → Temperance leader

    Before: Earned a living sewing garments in a New England workshop, a trade threatened by mechanized clothing factories.

    After: Joined the Woman's Christian Temperance Union, rising to national president (1898‑1914) and influencing social reform legislation.

    8. George Pullman: Cabinet‑maker → Railroad car innovator

    Before: Trained as a carpenter, making furniture for a small New England firm that struggled as railroads expanded.

    After: Designed and manufactured luxury sleeping cars, founding the Pullman Company (1867) and creating a model industrial town for his workers.

    9. Mary Elizabeth Garrett: Schoolteacher → Medical education reformer

    Before: Taught at a private academy in Baltimore, earning a modest salary.

    After: Used her inheritance to fund the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine (1893), insisting on admission of women and establishing the first women’s medical school in the U.S.

    10. Henry Ford: Farmhand → Automobile pioneer

    Before: Worked on his family farm in Michigan and later as an apprentice machinist, facing limited prospects as agriculture mechanized.

    After: Built the Ford Motor Company (1903) and introduced the moving‑assembly line (1913), making automobiles affordable for the masses.

    • Come on. These are edge cases. We are talking Joe average that went from having their own business, to working an average job. You know, the mass scaled transfer that will be what happens for most of society when people say 'they will find new jobs'. Not the small amount outliers.

      The guys that ended up spending their lives living in boarding houses with other men, never starting a family. The guys that ended up living in tramp camps traveling the country looking for work. The families that ended up as migrant workers. The people that broke and lived in flop houses or those long term hotels in downtowns.

      That is the real picture no one shows. What does 'find new work' after the industrial revolution look like for the average person, and the answer isn't 'become Henry f'ing Ford' now is it post WW2 style middle class employment.

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  • Do you think those people just starved to death? They had to find other jobs and they did. Now I'm sure I could find you 10 such examples if I trawl through historical records for a few hours but I'm not going to waste my time like that on New Year's Eve.

    Why are you constructing a strawman in your second paragraph? No one said or even implied that, you just made up your own quote you're attacking for something reason?

    • People imply that the jobs shakeup will 'work itself out', but tend to imply that working out looks like post WW2, when in reality we are at 1880 level change that took decades to 'work itself out' and working itself out included in 2 world wars during that time.

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