10% is the number I ordinarily see, counting for members of staff and adequate DR systems.
If we had paid our IT teams half of what we pay a cloud provider, we would have had better internal processes.
Instead we starved them and the cloud providers successfully weaponised extremely short term thinking against us, now barely anyone has the competence to actually manifest those cost benefits without serious instability.
I genuinely mean that, fly.io (although as unreliable as it might seem) is already around ~5x to 10x cheaper depending on use case, depending on some services it's actually <infinity> times cheaper because it's actually completely free when you self host!
GCP pricing is absolutely wicked when they charge $120/month for 4vcore 16gb ram, can get around 23 times more performance and 192gb ram for $350/month with Xtbps-ish ddos protection.
I have 2 2x7742 1tb ram each, 3 9950x3ds 192gb ecc, 2 7950x3d's all at <$600/month obv the original hardware cost in the realm of $60k - the epyc cpu's were bought used for around $1k each so not a bad deal, same with ram overall the true cost is <20k. This is entirely for personal use and will last me more than a decade most likely unless there are major gains in efficiency and power cost continues to grow due to AI demand. This also includes 100tb+ hdd of storage and 40tb of nvme storage all connected with 100gbps switch pair for redundancy for a cheap cheap price of $500 for each switch.
I guess I owe some links: (Ignore minecraft focused branding)
Wait what? can you show me some sources to back this up? I assume you are exaggerating but still, what would be the definition of cheap is interesting to know.
I don't think after the fact that ram prices spiked 4-5x that its gonna be cheaper to self host by 100x, Like hetzner's or ovh's cloud offerings are cheap
Plus you have to put a lot of money and then still pay for something like colocation if you are competing with them
Even if you aren't, I think that the models are different. They are models of monthly subscription whereas in hardware, you have to purchase it.
It would be interesting tho to compare hardware-as-a-service or similar as well but I don't know if I see them for individual stuff.
But they have scale. A small company will save less because it’s not that much more work to handle say a 100 node kubernetes cluster vs a 10 node kubernetes cluster.
Considering the fact that ramflation happened, and we assume the cost of hardware to be spread between 5 years, someone please run the numbers again.
It would be interesting to see the scale of basecamp. I just saw right now that hetzner offers 1024 GB of ram for around 500$
Um 37signals spent around 700k$ I think on servers so if someone has this much amount of money floating around, perhaps.
Yea I looked at their numbers and they mentioned a 1300$/month for just hardware for 1.3 TB and so hetzner might still make economically more sense somehow.
I think the problem for some of these is that they go too hard on the managed services and those are good sometimes as well but like, there are cheaper managed cloud than aws etc. as well (upcloud,ovh etc.) but at the end of the day, it's good to remember that if it bothers you financially, you can migrate.
Honestly do whatever you want. Start however you want because like these things definitely interest me (which is why I am here) but I think most compute providers have really gone the path of the bottom.
The problem usually feels to me when you are worried that you might break the term of service or anything similar if you are at scale or anything, not that this stops exactly being a problem with colo but that still brings more freedom
I think if one wants freedom, they can always contact some compute providers and find what can support their use case the best while still being economical. And then choose the best option from the multitude of available options.
Also vertical scaling is a beast.
I really went into learning a lot about cloud prices recently etc. so I want to ask a question but can you tell me more about the servers that 37signals brought or any other company you know of, I can probably create a list when it makes sense and when it doesn't perhaps and the best options available in markets.
not 100x.
10% is the number I ordinarily see, counting for members of staff and adequate DR systems.
If we had paid our IT teams half of what we pay a cloud provider, we would have had better internal processes.
Instead we starved them and the cloud providers successfully weaponised extremely short term thinking against us, now barely anyone has the competence to actually manifest those cost benefits without serious instability.
I genuinely mean that, fly.io (although as unreliable as it might seem) is already around ~5x to 10x cheaper depending on use case, depending on some services it's actually <infinity> times cheaper because it's actually completely free when you self host!
GCP pricing is absolutely wicked when they charge $120/month for 4vcore 16gb ram, can get around 23 times more performance and 192gb ram for $350/month with Xtbps-ish ddos protection.
I have 2 2x7742 1tb ram each, 3 9950x3ds 192gb ecc, 2 7950x3d's all at <$600/month obv the original hardware cost in the realm of $60k - the epyc cpu's were bought used for around $1k each so not a bad deal, same with ram overall the true cost is <20k. This is entirely for personal use and will last me more than a decade most likely unless there are major gains in efficiency and power cost continues to grow due to AI demand. This also includes 100tb+ hdd of storage and 40tb of nvme storage all connected with 100gbps switch pair for redundancy for a cheap cheap price of $500 for each switch.
I guess I owe some links: (Ignore minecraft focused branding)
https://pufferfish.host/ (also offers colocation)
telegram: @Erikb_9gigsofram direct colocation at datacenter (no middlemen / sales) + good low cost bundle deal
anti-ddos: https://cosmicguard.com/ (might still offer colocation?)
anti-ddos: https://tcpshield.com/
Wait what? can you show me some sources to back this up? I assume you are exaggerating but still, what would be the definition of cheap is interesting to know.
I don't think after the fact that ram prices spiked 4-5x that its gonna be cheaper to self host by 100x, Like hetzner's or ovh's cloud offerings are cheap
Plus you have to put a lot of money and then still pay for something like colocation if you are competing with them
Even if you aren't, I think that the models are different. They are models of monthly subscription whereas in hardware, you have to purchase it.
It would be interesting tho to compare hardware-as-a-service or similar as well but I don't know if I see them for individual stuff.
100x is probably hyperbole. 37 signals saved between 50 and 66% in hosting costs when moving from cloud to self hosted.
https://basecamp.com/cloud-exit
But they have scale. A small company will save less because it’s not that much more work to handle say a 100 node kubernetes cluster vs a 10 node kubernetes cluster.
7 replies →
Considering the fact that ramflation happened, and we assume the cost of hardware to be spread between 5 years, someone please run the numbers again.
It would be interesting to see the scale of basecamp. I just saw right now that hetzner offers 1024 GB of ram for around 500$
Um 37signals spent around 700k$ I think on servers so if someone has this much amount of money floating around, perhaps.
Yea I looked at their numbers and they mentioned a 1300$/month for just hardware for 1.3 TB and so hetzner might still make economically more sense somehow.
I think the problem for some of these is that they go too hard on the managed services and those are good sometimes as well but like, there are cheaper managed cloud than aws etc. as well (upcloud,ovh etc.) but at the end of the day, it's good to remember that if it bothers you financially, you can migrate.
Honestly do whatever you want. Start however you want because like these things definitely interest me (which is why I am here) but I think most compute providers have really gone the path of the bottom.
The problem usually feels to me when you are worried that you might break the term of service or anything similar if you are at scale or anything, not that this stops exactly being a problem with colo but that still brings more freedom
I think if one wants freedom, they can always contact some compute providers and find what can support their use case the best while still being economical. And then choose the best option from the multitude of available options.
Also vertical scaling is a beast.
I really went into learning a lot about cloud prices recently etc. so I want to ask a question but can you tell me more about the servers that 37signals brought or any other company you know of, I can probably create a list when it makes sense and when it doesn't perhaps and the best options available in markets.