Comment by etempleton
5 days ago
I do think Linux is accessible to many more people, but I would not say it is ready for the masses. The terminal is going to be a non-starter for your average computer user.
But, with that said, I started seriously using Linux for the first time in 2025. I bounce between Debian, Windows 11, and MacOS, and Debian is probably the most refreshing to use. I don’t find Windows 11 as oppressive as other seem to, but I have turned off most of what people cite as the issues. I find MacOSs Liquid Glass redesign to be more aggressively bad.
>I don’t find Windows 11 as oppressive as other seem to, but I have turned off most of what people cite as the issues.
So you debloated your windows but at any update you have to spin your wheels and try to remove any crap they put back in. At any time there’s the possibility you can no longer remove x or y. The vast majority don’t have the energy to play this game or don’t know how to.
It’s quite funny, that I was in a very similar thread here a few years ago, where it was flat out stated that everything worked on Linux. Just like how many people state it now. When I commented that, but for example dpi scaling is still broken to an unusable level, I got a ton of unhelpful comments, either recommending basic things, or just “it works for me”. Then now, most say that everything started to work in the past year, and how great the improvement was. I know these people are probably different, but it’s funny how the general sentiment is always “everything works now, but it was shit a year ago”.
I agree, it is bad and I don't like it, but I think it is bad in a way most users won't care about. I have not really considered a version of Windows to be good since...Windows 2000...maybe 3.1.1. They have all had major issues, so I just kind of shrug off the issues when I use Windows. The enshitification of MacOS is relatively new and so still stings a bit.
I think where Microsoft is playing with fire is that while most users will not care about some of these changes power users do. And the 5% of power users ultimately make the decisions and provide the recommendations for the other 95%. With so many apps and SAAS services going web or web app only there will be less and less reason to need to stick with Windows and that is where Microsoft will start to lose control.
I hope they will get burned this time. MS has been playing with fire, I agree.
> The terminal is going to be a non-starter for your average computer user.
My wife is the average computer user and has used Linux apps for years and never opened a terminal once.
Who installed linux and did the initial setup? And then I think there is a class of user that is savvy enough to say, update their graphics drivers but not willing to use a terminal and that is before you get into the mess that is Nvidia on linux.
I agree, under a managed setup scenario where a user is only really going to use a web browser and a few apps. Linux is just fine.
I installed, she could do the same, insert USB stick, run the graphical installer, remove it, boot into the new OS. That's all I did, on this machine, our LR TV PC, MVR PC, DR PC (for pleasant visual videos on YouTube), her PC, etc. Some are Dell, some are Lenovo, my last PC was an HP. I personally have used nVidia on multiple machines and models the past 2 decades. On mid-2000's machines I'd sometimes have to run the driver installer .sh file I downloaded from their site. The past at least 10 years, it gets installed automatically, didn't have to do anything.
Glad we agree on casual users. She uses Chrome and only 2 apps, same as when she was on Windows. Would you agree that probably most of the world is made up of casual users?
Installing is straightforward these days. You live boot a USB and install it from the actual OS
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I mentioned the same thing somewhere north of your comment.
My wife rocks Arch and could not care less.
"The terminal is going to be a non-starter for your average computer user."
My wife has no idea what a terminal is and does not care - she rocks Arch and has no idea what that means. The people that attend my uncle's PC clinic to have their "Win 10 that won't run Win 11" converted to Linux don't care either.
My Dad's PC will shortly be running Linux after I've taken him through MSOffice -> Libre Office + Scribus + (Evolution||Thunderbird).
I started off my early IT career as a trainer - I once did a day of DTP with Quark Express where I was given the floppies the night before. When I hear that Linux (actually LO etc) is incapable of doing whatever, I soon find that a deep discussion about what constitutes "incapable" generally turns into a training session.
For example I often hear about documents that apparently LO can't handle. That normally ends up with me teaching (proselytizing!) about how to use styles properly or even the real basics such as the four tab forms (L/R/C/decimal). Then we might segue into spreadsheets ... ahh, you'll want a array formula there ... "a what?" and off we go again.
Now, I have wandered off track here somewhat but I'm noting the other "not ready" convo that will often happen after we have covered how to find your mouse pointer or why Windows seems to still have two Control Panels and at least three half arsed IP stacks.
I do actually have a fondness for Windows, having used it since v2.0 at school in 1986ish. That fondness is rapidly going west along with VMware (consultant for 25 years).
I fucking hate being taken for a ride and basically being abused. Today, my company received an email from Broadcom telling us that we are no longer welcome as a reseller/unpaid support org. Luckily we started migrating our customers away from VMware some time ago and only the ones with the deepest pockets and greatest inertia remain. The rest are rocking Proxmox and I'm a much happier consultant too.
One day MS might tell my company that they have decided to dispense with our reseller/unpaid support services too, once they are sure that everyone is tucked up with a subscription.
Well, they can piss off too. I am capable of running email systems on prem (and do) even though I have migrated my firm from on prem Exchange to M365. I still point MX records to our place (Exim + rspamd) and run an imapd for some mailboxes. A calendar app is all that is missing.
What I hope I am getting across is that dumping Windows and co is quite a broad subject.
I think that your choice of Deborah and Ian's (bless!) distro is a really good solid starter for 10 but to be honest after a while you should be able to run any variety of Linux.
You should be able to install multiple Window Managers eg Gnome and KDE Plasma and all the rest at the same time and be able to select which session to use from your Display Manager (eg SDDM).
I have almost certainly overstayed my welcome in this tread but before I go, I will suggest that anyone who calls themself an IT (anything) should at least have a go at all available systems. Nowadays OS/2 Warp on something like 25 floppies is not a barrier to play (spin up a VM).
it's funny because it's Linux (and especially KDE) that has bridged that gap so long ago. I told my dad just open up sftp and edit the files. He's on windows of course. There's some convoluted thing. I totally forgot he cant literally just put in the URL and edit the file in kate!