{"id":46477560,"user":"sejje","time":1767453153,"time_ago":"a month ago","type":"comment","content":"

What would actually happen?","comments":[{"id":46478595,"user":"saubeidl","time":1767458205,"time_ago":"a month ago","type":"comment","content":"

French nukes would happen.","comments":[{"id":46479465,"user":"Aloisius","time":1767462729,"time_ago":"a month ago","type":"comment","content":"

Mutually assured destruction is still a thing.

These hypotheticals aren't helpful though.","comments":[{"id":46479523,"user":"saubeidl","time":1767463053,"time_ago":"a month ago","type":"comment","content":"

Exactly. That's what protects the EU from this scenario.","comments":[{"id":46480621,"user":"Aloisius","time":1767468947,"time_ago":"a month ago","type":"comment","content":"

It limits both sides involved in a conflict from using nuclear weapons first.

As history has clearly shown, it doesn't do much to prevent conventional wars, especially involving third parties.

I don't think anyone in power truly believes that France would actually use nuclear weapons to protect Italy during a conventional war against a nuclear power when France itself isn't in danger - let alone in a war Italy started. That's a no-win scenario for France.","comments":[{"id":46481139,"user":"saubeidl","time":1767471810,"time_ago":"a month ago","type":"comment","content":"

Italy isn't a third party. They're both EU states. French nuclear doctrine is specifically the only one with nuclear first strikes as response to conventional threats.","comments":[{"id":46481657,"user":"solenoid0937","time":1767475005,"time_ago":"a month ago","type":"comment","content":"

If push comes to shove, I believe France is incredibly unlikely to actually attack the US with nuclear weapons regardless of what happens to Italy.

Doctrines and policies are meaningless under pressure. Would France risk global nuclear armageddon and the near-extinction of humanity for Italy? Almost certainly not, regardless of what their "doctrine" says.","comments":[{"id":46481868,"user":"saubeidl","time":1767476150,"time_ago":"a month ago","type":"comment","content":"

If the US attacks Italy, humanity is already lost.","comments":[{"id":46481895,"user":"solenoid0937","time":1767476340,"time_ago":"a month ago","type":"comment","content":"

Fully agreed. We are just discussing hypotheticals.","comments":[],"comments_count":0,"level":7,"url":"item?id=46481895"}],"comments_count":1,"level":6,"url":"item?id=46481868"}],"comments_count":2,"level":5,"url":"item?id=46481657"},{"id":46483220,"user":"Aloisius","time":1767484993,"time_ago":"a month ago","type":"comment","content":"

They are a third party. The EU isn't a country, it's an association and it's clear that solitary between member countries only goes so far.

We saw what happened when France triggered the mutual defense clause in the EU charter after the terrorist attacked. Even when they all but begged other EU states to help them, they were rebuffed.

There's little reason to believe France would behave any differently if the roles had been reversed in the especially if there was any real risk to themselves if they got involved.","comments":[{"id":46483359,"user":"saubeidl","time":1767486113,"time_ago":"a month ago","type":"comment","content":"

The EU isn't an association, it's a Union.","comments":[],"comments_count":0,"level":6,"url":"item?id=46483359"}],"comments_count":1,"level":5,"url":"item?id=46483220"}],"comments_count":5,"level":4,"url":"item?id=46481139"}],"comments_count":6,"level":3,"url":"item?id=46480621"}],"comments_count":7,"level":2,"url":"item?id=46479523"}],"comments_count":8,"level":1,"url":"item?id=46479465"}],"comments_count":9,"level":0,"url":"item?id=46478595"}],"comments_count":10,"url":"item?id=46477560"}

Comment by sejje