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Comment by stickfigure

6 days ago

Iraq was never a democracy. It bounced from monarchy to military rule to one party rule to Hussein's personal dictatorship.

Venezuela had a... let's call it "respectable" democracy since the late 50s. Chavez did it no favors but it didn't completely collapse until Maduro.

If Venezuela recovers and improves, are you willing to fundamentally change your opinion about US interventions?

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stickfigure

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estearum  6 days ago

> If Venezuela recovers and improves, are you willing to fundamentally change your opinion about US interventions?

Uhh, no?

My opinion is that US interventions are incredibly risky. There have been numerous successes. There have also been numerous failures. Both have required immense resources and focus from us.

Some interventions are worth the risk, and others are not. I have not seen any compelling rationale for the risk-reward of this particular intervention, and have very low hopes for the follow through, which makes the risk-reward calculus even worse.

  • JKCalhoun  6 days ago

    Agree.

    If I wear a blindfold, cross a highway and am not hit by a car, am I willing to concede that crossing the highway blindfolded is safe?

  • mupuff1234  6 days ago

    You don't think Venezuela having the largest oils reserves on the planet and it being a strong ally to Russia, Iran and China make the possible reward fairly significant from a US standpoint?

    • estearum  6 days ago

      Sure it's conceivable. Can you go a level deeper on your analysis?

      Are you suggesting that cutting off oil flow to those nations will be advantageous to us? Is this like... tomorrow? During a potential armed conflict? When?

      By what specific mechanism does the US assert "control" over the oil? POTUS just now said it's via a ground occupation "until transition of power." What's the transition plan?

      17 replies →

    • ElectricalUnion  6 days ago

      > strong ally to Russia, Iran and China

      It's more like (similar to other sanctioned countries) "forcibly coerced by the USA into being a ally of Russia, Iran and China by sanctions".

  • singpolyma3  6 days ago

    Since the purpose of the interventions is to get more access for US oil companies, they are always successes

catlifeonmars  6 days ago

> Iraq was never a democracy. It bounced from monarchy to military rule to one party rule to Hussein's personal dictatorship.

In reference to this, have you seen the footage of Saddam Hussein taking power? It’s chilling.

jacquesm  6 days ago

Ethics debates are not served by utilitarian arguments.

  • andsoitis  6 days ago

    > Ethics debates are not served by utilitarian arguments.

    There isn't just a single universally agreed upon moral framework that serves as the basis for ethics.

    Depending on whether you adopt a Rawlsian, Utilitarian, Libertarian, or Communitarian moral framework, your actions would look different depending on the circumstances.

    Specially, the Utilitarian moral framework optimizes for the greatest good for the greatest number. Willing to sacrifice the few of the many. It might not be your or my moral framework, but I don't know that we can rule it out as a valid way to approach ethics.

    • jacquesm  6 days ago

      > Specially, the Utilitarian moral framework optimizes for the greatest good for the greatest number.

      No, the proponents of the utilitarian moral framework try to justify illegal actions retrospectively if the outcome was good and refuse to take responsibility if it is bad.

      Ethics should guide your decisions beforehand and require you to take responsibility for all possible outcomes.

      3 replies →

Hikikomori  6 days ago

Ah so US will allow Venezuela to profit from their own oil? This time surely