I wish people would be honest with themselves and the rest of us when they go on about ICE.
"Abolish ICE" sounds like you think once you get a few miles past the border, no one should be able to apprehend you. Sounds like you just want open borders.
Even if you think they should use different methods, or be more careful, it's still stupid to say "abolish ICE" or "we should dox and harass all ICE officers and interfere with them." That's just as dumb as saying that because several people die every day from medical malpractice we need to abolish doctors and hospitals.
Borders don't exist if you just let whoever wants to, come and stay forever and do whatever they want. And that's also why legal immigrant citizens moved to the right in recent years. They think it's messed up that they worked hard, paid a ton of money, followed all the rules, meanwhile random people from central America just hopped the fence and made up some story to claim asylum -- interesting that they crossed 4 countries before claiming asylum.
> And that's also why legal immigrant citizens moved to the right in recent years. They think it's messed up that they worked hard, paid a ton of money, followed all the rules, meanwhile random people from central America just hopped the fence and made up some story to claim asylum -- interesting that they crossed 4 countries before claiming asylum.
Yeah, you don't speak for me.
As a legal immigrant whose immigration to the US took several years and cost in the neighborhood of $30,000, I think it's messed up that it costs that amount of money to immigrate here, that pardoned J6 rioters are paid signing bonuses of $50,000 to be "law enforcement" and $5,000 per deportation to run around playing judge, jury, and in this case executioner, answerable to no-one, unbadged, masked and unidentifiable (because "fuck brown people/libs, amirite?"), because they run under a government entity that tells other government entities "fuck you, you can't tell me what to do".
> meanwhile random people from central America just hopped the fence and made up some story to claim asylum -- interesting that they crossed 4 countries before claiming asylum.
Perhaps you should look at whether or not some of those countries have signed treaties on asylum seekers.
ICE is a corrupt agency hiring the worst of society, whom just murdered a woman for no reason other than to power trip. The state apparatus immediately leapt into action, calling her a terrorist, a criminal, that this action was justified. This is only the most recent of their numerous crimes against the American people.
If you want to believe we need some form of immigration enforcement then fine, but ICE isn't it. ICE needs to go, yesterday. And every single person who joined said agency investigated, jailed and kept away from polite society. This is non-debatable.
ICE didn't exist prior to 2002, neither did CBP in it's current form, and they have done a lousy job of enforcing immigration, either at the border or internally, and primarily now exist as an internal secret police force under the personal control of the president. There is no reforming either of them, and they should both be completely disbanded and replaced with a new immigration enforcement service, ideally not under DHS which should also be disbanded. Everyone who currently works for either ICE and CBP should be fired and they can re-apply to whatever gets created to replace them after a thorough background check, if they don't get jailed.
ICE has only been around for about 20 years. It is not the only mechanism of immigration enforcement. It is, at its very structure, a system of violence.
Abolish ICE. I am 100% literal and serious when I say this. The agency should be dissolved.
When the Nazis fell, the occupation forces didn’t say “you can’t abolish the Gestapo, we need police, otherwise it’s just anarchy.” They got rid of the Nazi machine and replaced it.
ICE is rotten to the core. It should be abolished and replaced. Create a new organization with new leadership. Ban anyone from a leadership position in ICE from being employed by the new organization. Maybe allow the rank-and-file to apply, but they have to start fresh and are treated like any other applicant at best.
“Abolish ICE” isn’t about immigration enforcement. It’s about bringing to heel a reckless, out of control, proto secret police. “Abolish ICE” is about immigration enforcement as much as shooting a US citizen in the face is.
Well, when the Nazis fell, the occupation forces of the Eastern part of Germany actually did say something like "you can’t abolish the Gestapo, we need police". The seed of Stasi.
Currently, no comment anywhere in this discussion mentions abolishing ICE. Was something edited away? This seems like a misdirection. You have picked several inflammatory positions that nobody here is openly advocating.
I am personally concerned with the rule of law and the also extreme polarization of American society.
Keep in mind that first offense for being in the US illegally is a misdeameanor. I say this as we have a president with 34 felonies and got nothing for it. On top of that, we have ICE tactics like unreasonable searches and seizures, no due process rights, and racial profiling which are all against the law. We know this because US citizens were deported without any due process to make sure they were here illegally.
Casual reminder that the movie The Matrix is older than ICE. The country survived just fine without it before that. Abolishing ICE will not impact us negatively.
What's the connection between the movie The Matrix and ICE?
Also, did the country truly survive just fine without it before that? Are you familiar with crime stats? Could you share the data on levels of crime carried by illegal immigrants over the years?
"These laws are supported by the vast majority of voters."
Most voters don't support ICE's gestapo tactics:
"Voters 56 - 39 percent disapprove of the way U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, known as ICE, is doing its job."
"Republicans (77 - 17 percent) approve of the way ICE is doing its job, while Democrats (89 - 9 percent) and independents (64 - 32 percent) disapprove of the way ICE is doing its job."
From what I've seen immigration laws are nothing more than a pretext. If police were pulling over motorists for speeding and then summarily executing them, it would be idiotic to buy an excuse that they are merely enforcing traffic laws, right?
Most of those cases occur when there is already some suspected criminality, at night, or preexisting intent to effect an arrest. Not that this makes any of those incidents okay, but this situation is an escalation beyond that in that their only "cause" to start violently aggressing in broad daylight basically boils down to perhaps a minor traffic infraction, which is well outside of their jurisdiction.
Furthermore, these abduction squads don't need to be rampaging American cities armed and creating these types of immediately-escalated conflicts in the first place. Even if you believe that immigration laws need to be strictly enforced, doing so does not require lawless paramilitary squads! Apparently part of the price of the current enforcement strategy is the killing of American mothers who are at worst blocking traffic. If this administration truly has a popular mandate to strictly enforce these laws, then they have all the time in the world to do so, right? Instead, they have framed this as some immediate emergency needing overwhelming militarized force attacking our entire society. With its price of dead Americans, this is simply impossible to justify.
I wish people would be honest with themselves and the rest of us when they go on about ICE.
"Abolish ICE" sounds like you think once you get a few miles past the border, no one should be able to apprehend you. Sounds like you just want open borders.
Even if you think they should use different methods, or be more careful, it's still stupid to say "abolish ICE" or "we should dox and harass all ICE officers and interfere with them." That's just as dumb as saying that because several people die every day from medical malpractice we need to abolish doctors and hospitals.
Borders don't exist if you just let whoever wants to, come and stay forever and do whatever they want. And that's also why legal immigrant citizens moved to the right in recent years. They think it's messed up that they worked hard, paid a ton of money, followed all the rules, meanwhile random people from central America just hopped the fence and made up some story to claim asylum -- interesting that they crossed 4 countries before claiming asylum.
> And that's also why legal immigrant citizens moved to the right in recent years. They think it's messed up that they worked hard, paid a ton of money, followed all the rules, meanwhile random people from central America just hopped the fence and made up some story to claim asylum -- interesting that they crossed 4 countries before claiming asylum.
Yeah, you don't speak for me.
As a legal immigrant whose immigration to the US took several years and cost in the neighborhood of $30,000, I think it's messed up that it costs that amount of money to immigrate here, that pardoned J6 rioters are paid signing bonuses of $50,000 to be "law enforcement" and $5,000 per deportation to run around playing judge, jury, and in this case executioner, answerable to no-one, unbadged, masked and unidentifiable (because "fuck brown people/libs, amirite?"), because they run under a government entity that tells other government entities "fuck you, you can't tell me what to do".
> meanwhile random people from central America just hopped the fence and made up some story to claim asylum -- interesting that they crossed 4 countries before claiming asylum.
Perhaps you should look at whether or not some of those countries have signed treaties on asylum seekers.
thank you
ICE is a corrupt agency hiring the worst of society, whom just murdered a woman for no reason other than to power trip. The state apparatus immediately leapt into action, calling her a terrorist, a criminal, that this action was justified. This is only the most recent of their numerous crimes against the American people.
If you want to believe we need some form of immigration enforcement then fine, but ICE isn't it. ICE needs to go, yesterday. And every single person who joined said agency investigated, jailed and kept away from polite society. This is non-debatable.
ICE didn't exist prior to 2002, neither did CBP in it's current form, and they have done a lousy job of enforcing immigration, either at the border or internally, and primarily now exist as an internal secret police force under the personal control of the president. There is no reforming either of them, and they should both be completely disbanded and replaced with a new immigration enforcement service, ideally not under DHS which should also be disbanded. Everyone who currently works for either ICE and CBP should be fired and they can re-apply to whatever gets created to replace them after a thorough background check, if they don't get jailed.
ICE has only been around for about 20 years. It is not the only mechanism of immigration enforcement. It is, at its very structure, a system of violence.
Abolish ICE. I am 100% literal and serious when I say this. The agency should be dissolved.
On the other hand, abolish ICE
And replace with what? Do you think this is a local LEO problem?
2 replies →
When the Nazis fell, the occupation forces didn’t say “you can’t abolish the Gestapo, we need police, otherwise it’s just anarchy.” They got rid of the Nazi machine and replaced it.
ICE is rotten to the core. It should be abolished and replaced. Create a new organization with new leadership. Ban anyone from a leadership position in ICE from being employed by the new organization. Maybe allow the rank-and-file to apply, but they have to start fresh and are treated like any other applicant at best.
“Abolish ICE” isn’t about immigration enforcement. It’s about bringing to heel a reckless, out of control, proto secret police. “Abolish ICE” is about immigration enforcement as much as shooting a US citizen in the face is.
Well, when the Nazis fell, the occupation forces of the Eastern part of Germany actually did say something like "you can’t abolish the Gestapo, we need police". The seed of Stasi.
4 replies →
Alright, but what do you think should be done about ICE? Would you change anything?
Dissolve the agency and prosecute or disqualify all ERO agents from any and all public service.
Give them more power to deal with so-called activists interfering with their operation.
Arrest all the bad actors, they'll stop showing up.
> "Abolish ICE"
Currently, no comment anywhere in this discussion mentions abolishing ICE. Was something edited away? This seems like a misdirection. You have picked several inflammatory positions that nobody here is openly advocating.
I am personally concerned with the rule of law and the also extreme polarization of American society.
I am saying "abolish ICE". Abolish ICE
You should probably be more careful with absolute statements like that:
>ICE should be disbanded and most of its leadership jailed for their crimes.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46535404
Keep in mind that first offense for being in the US illegally is a misdeameanor. I say this as we have a president with 34 felonies and got nothing for it. On top of that, we have ICE tactics like unreasonable searches and seizures, no due process rights, and racial profiling which are all against the law. We know this because US citizens were deported without any due process to make sure they were here illegally.
Casual reminder that the movie The Matrix is older than ICE. The country survived just fine without it before that. Abolishing ICE will not impact us negatively.
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As someone that doesn't live in the US, this post sounds insane.
2 replies →
ICE is just the combination of INS and us customs service. Which are from 1933 and 1789.
ICE is the only Federal immigration enforcement agency.
Abolishing ICE is abolishing borders.
Border Patrol (CBP) exists and is a separate entity. They have their own issues, sure, but they are not shooting people in the face recently.
1 reply →
ha
[flagged]
3 replies →
What's the connection between the movie The Matrix and ICE?
Also, did the country truly survive just fine without it before that? Are you familiar with crime stats? Could you share the data on levels of crime carried by illegal immigrants over the years?
Unfortunately it seems like people are either on the left or right end of the spectrum. Surely there is a middle path as well.
I am against open borders, but I am also against some of ICE's tactics.
5 replies →
"These laws are supported by the vast majority of voters."
Most voters don't support ICE's gestapo tactics:
"Voters 56 - 39 percent disapprove of the way U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, known as ICE, is doing its job."
"Republicans (77 - 17 percent) approve of the way ICE is doing its job, while Democrats (89 - 9 percent) and independents (64 - 32 percent) disapprove of the way ICE is doing its job."
https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3926
"New Report: Majority of Americans Disapprove of President Trump’s Immigration Policies"
https://prri.org/press-release/new-report-majority-of-americ...
Interesting.
Wonder what the ratio is.
>"Voters 56 - 39 percent disapprove of the way U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, known as ICE, is doing its job."
What might be unclear from these numbers: Many disapprove because they believe ICE isn't doing enough.
Source?
From what I've seen immigration laws are nothing more than a pretext. If police were pulling over motorists for speeding and then summarily executing them, it would be idiotic to buy an excuse that they are merely enforcing traffic laws, right?
In the new America, if you died, you were guilty.
> If police were pulling over motorists for speeding and then summarily executing them,
If you haven't noticed, they've been shooting motorists who move their cars in this fashion for years/decades.
Not saying it's right...
Most of those cases occur when there is already some suspected criminality, at night, or preexisting intent to effect an arrest. Not that this makes any of those incidents okay, but this situation is an escalation beyond that in that their only "cause" to start violently aggressing in broad daylight basically boils down to perhaps a minor traffic infraction, which is well outside of their jurisdiction.
Furthermore, these abduction squads don't need to be rampaging American cities armed and creating these types of immediately-escalated conflicts in the first place. Even if you believe that immigration laws need to be strictly enforced, doing so does not require lawless paramilitary squads! Apparently part of the price of the current enforcement strategy is the killing of American mothers who are at worst blocking traffic. If this administration truly has a popular mandate to strictly enforce these laws, then they have all the time in the world to do so, right? Instead, they have framed this as some immediate emergency needing overwhelming militarized force attacking our entire society. With its price of dead Americans, this is simply impossible to justify.