Comment by hallole
2 days ago
The first food group listed is literally meat and dairy. The ordering here is purposeful, too, as they admit. One promo graphic includes a block of butter and a carton explicitly labelled "whole milk." This is a very definite downgrade.
Butter is king. It should be pictured with a crown, stars and glitter.
Surely whole milk is better than less-than-whole milk?
Why is that a downgrade?
Dairy/Meat are both inflammatory and overconsumption contributes to a whole host of medical disease.
Some protein is obviously desirable, but the ratios, like anything else in chemistry/biology, are paramount.
I don't think the USA has a problem with under consumption of meat and dairy. If anything, it has a long standing overconsumption problem.
The relationship between dairy/meat and inflammation is more nuanced than that. While some studies show associations with inflammatory markers, others find neutral or even anti-inflammatory effects depending on the type (e.g., grass-fed vs grain-fed, fermented vs non-fermented dairy) and individual metabolic context.
You're right that ratios matter enormously, but optimal ratios vary significantly by individual - genetics, activity level, metabolic health, and existing conditions all play roles. The overconsumption concern is valid for processed meats and in the context of sedentary lifestyles with excess calories, but the picture is less clear for whole-food animal proteins in balanced diets.
The real issue might be less about meat/dairy per se and more about displacement of other beneficial foods (fiber, polyphenols, etc) and overall dietary patterns. Many Americans do overconsume calories generally, but some subpopulations (elderly, athletes, those on restricted diets) may actually benefit from more protein.
why is meat inflammatory? is it they way it's farmed/raised?
because we have teeth specifically designed to get meat off bones and animals that don't eat meat and weren't "designed to" don't have teeth designed to clean meat off bones. and that's just one i came up with, off the cuff.
if it's current farming practices that make the meat/dairy bad for us, then fix that. But i don't currently believe there's a greater health benefit to taking a ton of supplements to replace the missing nutrients that meat and dairy give us that you absolutely cannot get from vegan diets without it becoming a monotonous pain in the neck.
9 replies →
That explains the great olympic track record of India.
1 reply →
Meat and dairy contain the bulk of the saturated fat in the average diet. It's pretty absurd to imagine a diet in which the largest food group is just meat and dairy, but due to the ordering, that almost seems to be implied.
The saturated fat → LDL-C → heart disease relationship has a lot of evidence and history behind it. A very interesting research project if you needed one. I call this advisory a "downgrade" because heart attack and stroke (among other conditions) are both: 1) downstream of saturated fat consumption, and 2) the most prevalent causes of death among people in the developed world.
It also very prominently shows red meat, which is the worst you can do.
fish > poultry > red meat. (Fish and poultry can be swapped, mercury is a real problem).
But really if you are looking for the healthiest proteins then you really can't do much better than nuts and beans.
Red meat beyond having a lot of links to heart disease is also linked to cancer. It should be seen as a treat, not the main thing you should be consuming.
Yup, there's a hole in our data that they appear to be exploiting. Early studies of saturated fat showed it was unhealthy, but then larger, longer studies found nothing. Were the first studies wrong? Or is the problem that we no longer have a control group--people responded to the news by cutting back on saturated fat?
> It's pretty absurd to imagine a diet in which the largest food group is just meat and dairy
Ever look at Mongolian cuisine? That's the bulk of what they eat. Most of those guys seem pretty healthy to me.
1 reply →
> It's pretty absurd to imagine a diet in which the largest food group is just meat and dairy
There's nothing absurd about this at all, this is my diet and my LDL numbers are great.
2 replies →
[flagged]
"The first food group listed is literally meat and dairy."
that's because the pyramid is presented pointy end down.
You're literally just lying.
The first thing shown on the website is - broccoli.
The top of the pyramid includes both protein (meat, cheese) as well as fruits & vegetables.
The reason that meat is shown first is probably that it's the bigger change (it's been demonized in previous versions), whereas vegetables were always prominent.
The first thing on the website is indeed broccoli. But the first thing in the new inverted pyramid, both on the website and in other graphics of it, is meat. In fact, on the website, when you first get to "The New Pyramid", you'll first see only the left half, the one that has meat and other proteins; you'll have to scroll more to see the right half with vegetables and fruit.
I don't think it is meant to read left to right but top to bottom. Chicken and broccoli are top center, and that is the standard weight lifter meal plan. That said, human dietary needs vary individually by far more than any lobbied leaders will ever communicate.
1 reply →
The only difference from the previous guidance is that it's suggesting eating more meat and dairy, which would come at the expense of veggies, legumes, nuts and seeds.
To be honest, I don't totally disagree from a practical angle. I think we have to acknowledge that most Americans failed to eat large portions of non-processed veggies, legumes, nuts and seeds. The next best thing might be to tell them, ok, at least if you're going to eat meat and dairy in large portions, make sure it's non-processed.
I've found for myself, it's hard to eat perfectly, but it's easier to replace processed foods and added sugar with simpler whole meats, fish and healthy fats like avocado, eggs, etc. And since those have higher satiety it helps with calorie control and so you avoid eating more snacks and treats which are heavily processed and sugary.
That said, in a purely evidence based health sense, it's not as good as the prior ratios from what I've seen of the research.