Comment by immibis
4 days ago
Between the USA and China, definitely China. Seems pretty simple. They have much higher standards of living and while it's very bad you can't say Tiananmen Square, that doesn't overrule food and shelter. They have all the job openings for advanced technology work as well - they no longer just manufacture US designs but are rapidly expanding into making better versions of most things, and the main reason we haven't heard about them is that none of the documentation is in English.
They're going to soon find out their stash of dollars is toilet paper, but that won't make too much of a difference with such an advanced economy of their own - the USA will surely have yuan reserves in 30 years.
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
The key words are "essential" and "temporary" - the nouns can be replaced with pretty much anything.
In what way do you think the USA is currently doing better than China? Yes you can talk about Tiananmen Square, obviously, but there are other things you can't talk about.
Safety protects liberty, otherwise you get public safety authoritarians like Duterte or Bukele. This is not advocacy for authoritarianism. It's advocacy for assertive liberalism that is effective at delivering a core human need in order to protect liberalism from itself.
Which essential Liberty you think Chinese people do not have?
Freedom of speech, freedom of association and freedom from abitrary detention, just to name a few.
Of course some speech, association and rule of law (as opposed to rule by law) is enjoyed by most people. But it is indisputable that China restricts speech and association severely, and silences "troublemakers" arbitrarily.
Let me preempt the inevitable replies: this comment is about China and China alone. It it factual irrespective of what freedoms may or may not be enjoyed anywhere else including the US.
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Freedom of information is the first thing that comes to mind.
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the chinese are definitely going to pull ahead, but we're definitely not going to see US fall like that.
it's too easy to assassinate world leaders for a state sponsored government so you have to beg the question: why has nobody done it? the relative peace we have is built on top of mutual destruction and realistically US won't fall without taking most of the world with it.
the reason I believe it's easy because US SS seemingly lost their edge as there haven't been many real threats against the president to begin with. I just can't imagine that there is much any government could do against a 400-500km/h drone specialized for a 20 second mission from being to accomplish the goal, the world leader would be dead by the time anyone even registered that there is a threat.
> but we're definitely not going to see US fall like that.
We're already seeing that. You probably live in a coastal city, and so might be unaware of how just undeveloped so much of the country is. Look at things like literacy levels and political unrest as well.
The US is absolutely falling, it can be saved but not with the way half the country seems to vote.
wow, you're way off the mark - I am sitting in a soviet building enjoying life for less than the minimum wage at times just because I can and I am very well aware of large parts of the US since I am friends with at least one person from every state.
but to get to the actual point: US is big, like very big and dominated by the strongest propaganda machine in the world: https://youtu.be/BY9uuxC_YAQ
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> the chinese are definitely going to pull ahead
Are they? Please don't forget at least 50M Chinese in abject poverty and a demographic crisis barreling towards them that is not avoidable unless they develop cloning vats that can rapidly age a clone to productive adulthood in a compressed timeframe.
the heartbreaking truth is that those 50m people do not matter or at the very least the government is not interested in them.
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>They have much higher standards of living
Are you serious? You cannot be. A poor person in the USA has way more money than EU or China. They just love to complain on Reddit.
The rest of your post is delusion. What is your nationality?
Partly true but misleading.
On average, the USA is significantly richer than China and most EU countries, and this shows up in macro indicators such as GDP per capita, median income, and average wealth per adult. Even people at the lower end of the income distribution in the US often have higher nominal incomes than poor people in China, and sometimes higher than in poorer EU countries. Compared to China in particular, a poor person in the US usually has access to far more money and material goods.
However, Europe is not a single comparison point. In many Western European countries (France, Germany, Scandinavia), poor people often have similar or even better effective living standards than poor Americans once public services are included. Free or heavily subsidized healthcare, education, housing support, and transport can compensate for lower cash income and raise real living conditions. Finally, inequality matters. The US has much higher income inequality and weaker social safety nets than most of Europe. This means that while the country is richer overall, being poor in the US can be harsher than being poor in many EU countries, especially when accounting for healthcare costs and financial risk.
So the claim is broadly true when comparing the US to China, but not universally true when comparing the US to Europe, and it oversimplifies what “having more money” actually means.
ps: I live in Switzerland and it is a whole different story.
Yes I am Swedish actually so I know all this. My college was free etc. Good public transport.
BUT I would rather be poor in the USA than poor in China.
This was the point.
EU is best ofc.