Comment by helsinkiandrew
1 day ago
> The sane environmental stuff you mentioned has morphed into a requirement for deeply integrated electronic oversight
Decent catalytic converters require an array of sensors, ECU, and ability to fine control the engine inputs to work - without them most large cities would become smog ridden hells.
There's no reason technology has to be user-hostile. You can still have an ECU and screens and everything. When it breaks the screen can be used to tell you exactly which sensor input is out of range. There's no reason parts need to be serialized and learning a new part can only be done once.
You can build a modern vehicle that's still repairable.
Modules need to be programmed for your vehicle specs and country because there are different laws and functions.
For example rear taillights are different in Europe vs the US.
Another is that higher trims of my car have a rear climate zone which has a different fan and actuators for air flow that the module needs to know exist.
> Modules need to be programmed for your vehicle specs and country because there are different laws and functions.
So are different intervalls of oil change between Australia and Europe - and yet, even in the 90s, people were able to keep that in mind.
We got taught to be helpless by the industry, so they can help us out. If that mindset would have existed in the 60s, 70s, then there would not be a "true to OEM" aftermarket available for car parts. We need to get back to that.
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Sure, but the reasons programming requires proprietary software accessible only to the dealer via some kind of online access are depressing: laziness, greed, and crime.
Making software that's usable by independent shops and consumers costs money, eliminates business lock-in to dealers, and boosts the gray/black market for broken or stolen parts, so the only reason manufacturers do it at all is when they are required to by regulation.
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So the screen can ask for the programming data to be entered or loaded from a USB stick given to you when you buy the vehicle. There’s no reason this can only be done with a proprietary tool you often can’t get legally at all and have to resort to piracy or reverse-engineered aftermarket options. There’s also no reason this can only be done once and then the module is junk.
Hardware differences can be autodetected in some cases.
That’s just a bunch of “if”s. And they are already programmed. But instead of coming directly built in on the vehicle you need to purchase a very expensive tool that hooks on the port and then tells you what the vehicle should tell you in the first place.
The solution to city air pollution is a different vehicle with a different drive train: an EV. The C15 is a workhorse for farmers and craftsmen not for shopping trips and driving the family to visit granny on the other side of town.
> The solution to city air pollution is a different vehicle with a different drive train: an EV.
Priority list should basically be:
0. Bicycles 1. Metro 2. Buses 3. EVs
(not counting emergency and service vehicles)
> 0. Bicycles 1. Metro 2. Buses 3. EVs
-1. Feet
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EVs are still heavier than ICE vehicles and will for the next 10-20 years unless one is OK with a tiny battery. And heavy weight means more pollution from wheels that produce particles that ends up in lungs. Note brakes also pollutes with asbestos but EVs typically have regenerative braking so I think brakes pollutes roughly the same in a heavier EV as in ICE car.
I compared the weights of EVs versus ICE, and they were surprisingly close. Most of time, the differences were in the 15% range, and then you find exceptions like the Hummer, which is 30% heavier. I'm sure it comes as no surprise That the heavier the vehicle, the bigger the difference in ICE versus EV weight.
While I think lighter weight vehicles of all types would be a big win, I fear that ship has sailed. I think we have an opportunity to reset vehicle size both from a desire for cheaper and simpler vehicles. Look at cost and weight of the BYD EVs and the new pickup trucks from Slate and Telos.
Overall, I find the slightly increased weight for an EV to be an acceptable trade-off. Brakes last longer, tires, depending on make, are about 10% shorter life at most and overall maintenance is much less. Since I keep my cars until the body goes toes up, I have a much lower carbon footprint. than the 3yr lease route
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The tire pollution is true, but the brakes hardly get used on an EV. They are almost for emergency use only. Mine has a special mode to disable regeneration for a while so you can use the brake pads to clean the rotors.
Modern car brakes don't have asbestos.
The difference in tyre wear is so marginal it's probably unmeasurable - less than the difference between running at the correct pressure and forgetting to check your tyre pressure.
ICE vehicles also have exhaust pipes which pollute some too...
My EV is lighter than your ICE. Volkswagen eUP. 1183kg. 250km range in summer conditions.
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For gasoline engines, electronic fuel injection is far better than a carburetor, it isn't just the emissions systems.
Sure, it's harder to work on. The trade off there is that you don't have to work on it.
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Engine control alone can be self-contained. The Ford EEC IV of the 1980s had its program permanently etched into the Intel 8061 CPU, and was designed to last 30 years. It did. I finally sold off my 40 year old Ford Bronco, which was still running on the original engine and CPU.
If you have an electric vehicle you need none of that
And if people would make one that wasn't an iPad on wheels I'd be in line to buy.
This is my exact same sentiment. I’m cautiously excited about the upcoming Slate Pickup[1] - I can see it being my go-to if I leave NYC, but it still won’t hit like the XJ Cherokee I drove before I gave up cars for the city.
1: https://www.slate.auto/
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For the price of that C15 (adjusted for inflation it seems) you may be able to buy a battery for an EV. Maybe.
This is why late 90s cars are objectively the greatest ever built. You had ECUs, cats, ABS, disc brakes, airbags, power steering, and conventional automatic transmissions. Everything that makes a modern car safe and reliable, but none of the high tech digital BS that has infused things nowadays.
ESC (electronic stability control) didn't become common until about 2010 to 2015. It makes a really big difference for safety -- EU estimates are that it's saved more than 15,000 lives. Let's backport that one too. :)
My 2004 RX-8 had decently solid ESC, but it was a “high-end” vehicle at the time. It’s definitely something we want to keep in our idealized vehicle (but let’s also keep the “disable ESC so I can have fun” button)
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I bought my first real wheel drive car in 2014. Still have it. It's not a race car. About 170hp. It struggles at the smallest curves. Good thing it has traction control and esp. Except all the front wheel cars I had before, one even slightly more powerful and smaller, never needed any of that. Never ever buying a rwd again. (Enthusiast forums of the brand tell me I don't know how to drive RWD. Skill issue. :D)
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It was available already on late 90s vehicles. That was the fix to solve Mercedes Class A failing Elk test: put ESP on all trims
In reality many 90s cars are phenomenal rust buckets due to issues in the adoption of water-based paints, cars which actually still have tangible amounts of steel in their panels are basically golden samples.
What do the sensors do? There's not much you can change in the catalytic converter so I assume it's just reading temperature? So I assume it's changing the fuel/air combustion ratio according to the cat's temperature?
Not a motorhead but IIRC a combustion with too little oxygen produces soot (pollution) and one with too much oxygen produces NOx pollution, with a sweet spot in the middle. The exhaust oxygen sensor allows the ECU to adjust the air/fuel mix to hit the minimum pollution spot, instead of estimating it.
There might also be a catalyst temperature sensor or something.
It's not a "whole bunch" of sensors, it's a few sensors and it's not some inscrutable magic, it's somethijg someone could replicate in open-source if they had equipment and time. We really need to get away from the mindset that proprietary stuff contains inscrutable magic. It's often worse quality than the open thing. However, it does have the right connections to be allowed to be put in a car that drives on the road.