Comment by superfrank
2 days ago
It's funny, early on it says
> The O-1 category includes the O-1A, which is designated for individuals with extraordinary ability in the sciences, education, business or athletics and the O-1B, reserved for those with “extraordinary ability or achievement”.
Then later it says
> The O-1B visa, once reserved for Hollywood titans and superstar musicians, has evolved over the years.
I understand those two aren't necessarily contradictory, but the wording of the first sentence paints a very different mental picture than the second one (at least it did for me), especially since they throw in the O-1A and then almost exclusively talk about people applying for the O-1B after that.
Personally, I don't want the US choosing to give visas to influencers over scientists, but if this visa was already being heavily used to bring in actors, musicians, and athletes I don't see what the hubbub is about. I don't use TikTok or OnlyFans and I don't find e-sports entertaining, but I have a hard time arguing that a screen actor, Victoria's Secret model, or soccer player should be worthy of a visa and a social media star, OnlyFans model, or a professional Counter Strike player shouldn't is not. It's all just entertainment.
I am not a lawyer. But OF models using O1 visa is totally fine. It is the intended purpose. The visa itself is meant for researchers, scholars who have job offers, athletes, actors etc. it has no cap and clear criteria. OF models who make a lot of money should totally qualify for this.
Also this visa in uncapped so giving visas to OF models does not take away anything from scientists and others.
O visa's original intent was to help pretty ladies from Eastern Europe to be brought into the country as indentured workers. That is why it is so easy to get this visa for an actor or a fashion model but very tough to get someone for their research.
So all this is working as intended.
I thought the reason for this to be a visa is because their fields' activities were in-person (acting in movies/plays/shows, academic life & research, sports training & leagues, etc). A streamer / OF worker is not like that as far as I know (but e-sports is). So this is purely to bring people with money and/or influence, nothing exceptional except the number of 0's.
O visa is sponsored by an employer. The employer has to provide reasons why the person is being brought in USA. It makes perfect sense for USA to bring as many OF models as they want into USA as it could mean $$$$ in revenue for IRS, more money for US business and since these models are typically young there is lower load on any kind of welfare.
What I know from news articles is that some of them openly "escort", like some traditional porn stars did more quietly. The fame on the screen can be brand-building for the even more lucrative in-person work.
As one said in a quote, regarding AI threat and crumbling economies: "The oldest profession will be the last profession."
If some of them want to move to the US right now, from currently healthier countries, one reason may be that social inequality means there are many deep-pocketed customers able to pay 5 figures for a weekend experience.
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It increases the countries' soft power if people around the world watch content from there.
Eg. a self-reinforcing cycle that you get the best from the other immigrant categories arriving because they choose the country where everything "seems to be happening".
> A streamer / OF [may not have to be in person]
From what I understand about OF, it's not just people posting lewds, sometimes there are other actors in the media.
Having access to established actors and uh... "collaborating" with them would require being there in person I would guess.
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> A streamer / OF worker is not like that as far as I know (but e-sports is).
Well Streamer vs Influencer can be different potentially, that said I can think of one example even for video game streamers, that being the AGDQ charity event where speedrunners/streamers do stuff live for charity at the event space.
> I thought the reason for this to be a visa is because their fields' activities were in-person (acting in movies/plays/shows, academic life & research, sports training & leagues, etc). A streamer / OF worker is not like that as far as I know
An OnlyFans worker may make the bulk of her money by meeting fans in person for dates. That can't be done over the internet.
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TBH the president's (current) wife came in on an O1 visa too - as was the original intent like you said.
> O visa's original intent was to help pretty ladies from Eastern Europe to be brought into the country as indentured workers
That seems like something we should fix?
OF models make money until a certain age though. Sure, not too different to the current job market you could argue, but usually any "influencer" career today is quite short lived if you haven't a very specific niche.
In my country prostitution is legal, but I think some countries are very hypocritical here about OF.
Is the influencer career being short lived any different from an athlete
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Why does someone doing OF need to be in the country? You can upload pictures from anywhere.
Because once you move to live in the US (or any other country) then you become tax liable there and every gov wants more net taxpayers.
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It's not that they need to be in the country; they want to be in the country.
It's the difference in difficulty for the criteria.
https://www.pathlawgroup.com/o1b-visa-requirements/
For traditional arts, you've gotta be good.
For an influencer... some number of anonymous followers?
There are certainly some that would qualify... but it they should be held to the same standards as others.
There's a boy band, Boy Throb who specifically leveraged visa application in their recent content, and their immigration attorney advised the visa would be approved when they got 1,000,000 followers. They filmed themselves singing and dancing outside the US Immigration office to help one of their members applications.
Their visa application content is rather silly/absurd:
https://www.tiktok.com/@boy.throb/video/7572273147743980831
https://www.tiktok.com/@boy.throb/video/7567806911580622110
https://www.tiktok.com/@boy.throb/video/7584876341267270943
For a Youtube influencer I can see them meet 3 of the criteria by showing their influence on others, money earned, Youtube awards for viewership (by Google!). Maybe some platforms lend themselves more to being used for this sort of evidence than others.
- Evidence of a record of major commercial or critically acclaimed successes in the performing arts, as shown by box office receipts or record, cassette, compact disk, or video sales
- Evidence of significant recognition for achievements from organizations, government agencies, or other recognized experts in the field
- Evidence of having commanded a high salary or other significantly high remuneration for services in relation to others
- Youtube awards do not count towards the awards criteria. The award has to be for being highly selective not linked to mere subscribers.
I wonder people who have enough karma on the HN leaderboard would count...
Wait, HN has a leaderboard?
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Well if your audience is larger than an average CNN show, and you earn north of a million a year, don't you qualify?
A lot of youtube influencers are damn good at entertainment though, and a lot of “traditional media” entertainers are truely horrid. Ever seen a reality tv show? lol
...or anything with a laugh track? I tried some show a couple years back and was shocked to find that those still exist. I discovered it's a great signal of a show that I would not want to watch.
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Seeing as how it's is trivial to buy followers, that metric should be completely abandoned, it's not legitimate.
It's maybe slightly less trivial to do, but still incredibly common to buy awards, recognition, press releases, positive reviews and commentary in publications.
You might be shocked to find out how much the performers being written about in magazines or discussed on TV shows is a direct line to the production company promoting them. Similar for awards.
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Money is an option, regardless. EB-5 is about $1M invested into your own business, 10 people hired.
> For traditional arts, you've gotta be good.
> > advertisements, press releases, publications contracts, or endorsements
> > box office receipts or record, cassette, compact disk, or video sales
> > Evidence of having commanded a high salary or other significantly high remuneration for services in relation to others
I fail to see the distinction you are trying to draw. Commercial value and celebrity has always been one of the metrics of "achievement".
The overall gist is that the visa application should be someone who is not easily replaced by an existing local worker that can generate similar value.
The specifics of the law are:
8 CFR 214.2(o)(3) ( https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-8/part-214/section-214.2#... )
The key is that this is extraordinary. About 20,000 O1B visas across all fields ( https://www.passright.com/how-many-o-1-visas-are-issued-each... )
This isn't a local worker thing (the H visas) but rather bringing the best and brightest from across the world to the United States.
https://www.hio.harvard.edu/o-1-visa-individuals-extraordina...
> The O-1 visa is a temporary work visa designated for individuals who have achieved and sustained national or international acclaim for extraordinary ability in the sciences, arts, education, business or athletics, or individuals who have demonstrated a record of extraordinary achievement in the motion picture and television industries.
> O-1 Extraordinary Ability visa status is reserved for those who are among the small percentage of experts who have risen to the top of their field. The approval of an O-1 petition by the United States Citizenship & Immigration Services (USCIS) decides whether an individual qualifies for O-1 classification. This classification requires a substantial amount of evidence. The O-1 is a very complicated visa category subject to high levels of scrutiny by the U.S. government. Due to the complexity, the O-1 visa is used very infrequently.
At what point do we ever ask ourselves -- "what kind of culture do we want to create for the future of our country?" I don't think a pro soccer player is comparable to an onlyfans contributor. I would much prefer my future kids to be inspired by Cristiano Ronaldo than someone baring themselves on camera.
Yet CR7 is routinely photographed baring himself on camera, which is one of the reasons he's so popular.
Alongside delivering in performance, and being a role model in pushing oneself to the limit in regards to training.
Photos don't win matches.
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If what you’re just concerned about people “baring themselves on camera” then they can continue to do that without emigrating to America and it would still affect your culture. The internet is global after all.
Also, it’s going to take more than a few thousand immigrants a year to affect the culture of a country as populous as America.
The internet is global, but having folks in our midst who make a living that way has more of an effect on our culture than if they are just on the internet.
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i mean you said it yourself, the internet is global. those few thousand can have impressions of hundreds of millions. whether they do their cam shows abroad or local matters little. it's the inherent incentivization approved by a government that leads to deeper cultural erosion. if you're in a poor country with no access to education, and your only way into the US is porn, then that's what will ultimately win, rather than incentivizing higher education, etc. And before an argument is made that this will just be a way to get in and then those folks will go and seek PHDs and be productive members of society--i have a bridge to sell you.
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I see no difference in Cristiano Ronaldo and a porn star and an influencer and whatever you name it. They are all idols that sell stories for people to project their own thoughts and desires onto and get emotional. I would be more worry about my kid believing in celebrities, regardless of who they are. And the American mainstream culture is filthy anyway. As the old French joke once said the difference of yogurt and the us is that if you leave yogurt for a coupled of hundred years they would develop culture.
You would not have a lot of trouble with your kid trying to be best in basketball, or football, and make a name for it.
I don't think the same would apply to OF or porn. Totally different things.
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In the interest of fairness, can you really say different about "mainstream" French culture?
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The other replies to this show a form of argumentation that's always fascinated me.
You say "We should encourage X over Y" and the retorts are
None directly disagree with the original point, but they do imply fault in the original reasoning without providing any proof or requiring any effort.
The third one is a classic, the straw man. A concise implication of error in which a good-faith response would be long-winded and boring comparatively.
To what end?
What are they hoping to get out of disagreeing with someone trying to encouraging our future culture to be one of relative wholesomeness?
... Why take the time out of one's day to say "well... encouraging X is great and all but you know what's better? passive-aggressively working against anyone that suggests it."?
It is disappointing that it is so easy to bamboozle HNers with a straw man argument.
The original poster was clearly not making an analogy between professional soccer and only fans creators.
To be explicit, the comparisons were:
Cinematic actors -> TikTok creators
Victoria’s Secret model -> only fans creator
Pro soccer -> esports
I fail to see how the culture of our country will be negatively impacted by any of those changes. Comparing Cristiano Renaldo to OnlyFans is a straw man because that specific comparison was never suggested, except by the “rebuttal”
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it's low iq pedantry/contrarianism that pervades the tech industry that i refuse to engage with. it's exactly the same people that will bikeshed every feature into the abyss. i agree and appreciate your sentiment.
The more I hear about culture, the more I think it seems like the new age mysticism of the right
What's wrong with an OnlyFans contributor? It's a self-employed job that services a demand within the economy and pays taxes. It's pretty close to the ideal job an immigrant can have since the product is already globalized but the revenue is not - i.e. an OnlyFans influencer with an American audience who moves to America is now bringing that income back into the economy via taxes and spending, or if they have an international audience they are attracting foreign dollars into your economy and strengthening your currency position.
Extracting money from horny young men with an illusion of intimacy/friendship just doesn't seem ethical. Or good for society as a whole.
Especially when you've got streamers using sites like Twitch, aimed at younger gamers, promoting their OnlyFans porn.
The regular porn industry is bad enough (https://traffickinghub.com/), but at least the content is non-interactive, there's no pretence of friendship/connection.
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Sex work (OF or otherwise) is unsavory, that's what. You can't stop it but there's zero reason we should be going out of our way to grant visas to sex workers.
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You should look into Ivanka Trump. It's quite funny.
Never, none of this shit matters
They don't believe in the concept of a culture improving or declining. It's an axiom of a certain ideology that no culture can be inferior to another.
what is the difference?
It's not "just entertainment". We want extraordinary athletes and musicians to inspire people and show them what humans are capable of. Extraordinary prostitutes are generally not inspiring people in the way that most people probably would like society to move. It's fine to place different amounts of cultural value on these things and not remain neutral about the worth of all possible human endeavors.
When someone describes themselves as an "influencer", it is entirely appropriate to ask what sort of influence they're having, and whether we want that.
Lots of extraordinary athletes are not good role models, yet we still grant them O1 visas. Many of them have many children to different women and are terrible fathers. To me, influencers are like the athletes of the attention economy. In the old world (20+ years ago, before iPhones), media was much more tightly controlled. It was harder to get famous. Now with mobile Internet, a new, parallel fame hierarchy that appeared. To me, most influencers seem like popular people from high school, but they use social media to extend their reach and shelf-life.
+1. While supreme court defines the likes of porn as freedom of expression, it's a different thing for a country to want different kinds of professions to be more common through its immigration system.
Entertainment is an industry :)
It would be unwise to filter out the fun people. We'd all become a bunch of unfun nerds.
Sir, this is HN. Being an unfun nerd is practically a prerequisite.
Speak for yourself :)
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While I know you wrote this in jest, you raise a very good point! A lot of people with STEM jobs unwind after a long day by watching or listening to comedy -- TV, film, stand-up, YouTube, whatever. I have no issue with it. Also, lots of them go home and play video games. That is another form of entertainment (fun).
The latter part is in jest anyway. The former is true! It would be quite boring to live in a world without a proper entertainment industry -- agreed.
Kinda funny this comment is downvoted!
I guess the question is why do virtual/internet stars need to be in the US? Actors or musicians would have primarily performed live or been recorded live, in US cities. But an OF model? Why does this person need to be physically located in the US at all? What is the benefit to the person, or to the US?
Benefit to the person is probably a path to citizenship and more economic opportunities (especially since being a camgirl is a young person’s career with almost no long-term prospects)
Benefit to the USA, being generous, is that those earnings of the camgirl may then be spent in the US instead of flowing overseas. At least some of it will.
Critics would rightly point out though that importing thousands of camgirls increases demand for apartments (and even more than the typical person because I bet they’re less likely to live with roommates than a typical woman of the same age) and we have a massive housing crisis in all cities. Maybe if the camgirls want to move to the rust belt or something, it could still work out net positive.
> Benefit to the person is probably a path to citizenship
As I understand it, from an O-1 visa (a temporary one that needs to be renewed every year after the third), the next step is the Employment-Based Immigration: First Preference EB-1 visa.
https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/permanent...
> You may be eligible for an employment-based, first-preference visa if you are an alien of extraordinary ability, are an outstanding professor or researcher, or are a certain multinational executive or manager. Each occupational category has certain requirements that must be met ...
An OF model isn't likely to fall under the "outstanding professors and researchers" or the "certain multinational executive"... so we're going with the extraordinary ability criteria.
> You must meet at least 3 of the 10 criteria* below, or provide evidence of a one-time achievement (i.e., Pulitzer, Oscar, Olympic Medal) as well as evidence showing that you will be continuing to work in the area of your expertise. No offer of employment or labor certification is required.
More on the specifics can be found at https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-6-part-f-chapter-...
After reading this... I'm going to say that it is unlikely that an OF model would meet the requirements for an EB-1 visa as a path to citizenship.
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I assume that foreign influencers (Instagram, YouTube, OF) mostly move to two places: (1) Los Angeles or (2) Miami. Both have great weather and large networks of people in similar industry.
I would like to point out the long term prospects part may not be true for high earners. Some models make a senior software engineers annual salary in a matter of months. Many of these people can retire and live off investments at age 35.
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The benefit to the person is going to vary. For one reason or another they prefer to be in US rather than wherever they currently are. I'm sure each person has their own unique set of reasons, but it's not hard to imagine.
A benefit for the US is increased GDP, tax revenue, etc.
> What is the benefit to the person, or to the US?
Not that I encourage it but... Obviously an OF model moving to the US means US users viewing that person now stop sending money abroad. And people from all over the world watching that model now send money to the US.
It's not just tax revenues: it's shifting the balance of money in the US's favor. If an OF model makes $10m a year and pays $2m in taxes, it's not just $2m in tax revenues for the US: it's also in addition to that $8m that are now spent/staying in the US.
Tax revenue
What is the average turnover/tenure of a camgirl? I'd think that most popular camgirls come and go pretty quickly, such that giving them visas that were formerly reserved for performing musicians would not necessarily make sense.
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Because they want to
What the fuck?
I can think of maybe two musicians who might be said to fit in that tight intersection.
Brian May (guitarist from Queen) who has an astrophysics PhD from Imperial College London
Professor Brian Cox who teaches Physics at Manchester University and is a public face of science of tv here in the UK was keyboardist for one-hit-wonder band d-reem who had a hit in the 90s with “Things can only get better”.
Brian May is really the only one who is a superstar musician but Brian Cox is a more significant scientist.
I’ve been thinking lately a lot of female pornographic actresses on sites such as Brazzers don’t have US origins.
Does anyone know on which work visa do models come in then? It can’t be H1B…
> Does anyone know on which work visa do models come in then? It can’t be H1B…
The H-1B1 visa is the one that we're mostly familiar with. Specialist occupations that require "[t]heoretical and practical application of a body of highly specialized knowledge and [a]ttainment of a bachelor's or higher degree in a directly related specific specialty (or its equivalent) as a minimum for entry into the occupation in the United States."
The H-1B2 visa is for DOD Researcher and Development Project Worker.
The H-1B3 visa is for... Fashion Model
> The position/services must require a fashion model of prominence.
> To be eligible for this visa category you must be a fashion model of distinguished merit and ability.
https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/h-1b-spec... (expand the eligibility criteria)
The specifics of the law are at https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-8/part-214/section-214.2#... - subsection 1 matches H-1B1, 2 matches H-1B2, and 3 matches H-1B3
> 8 CFR 214.2(h)(4)(i)(A)(3) - Will perform services in the field of fashion modeling and who is of distinguished merit and ability.
O1. It was specifically designed for this sort of professions and sports. For example when Chess Grandmasters from India come to USA.
But many are. Stormy Daniels, for example, is American.
For what it's worth, as a O-1 scientist you have to provide evidence that you:
...are a member of scholarly/professional organizations;
...have published original research works scientifically and internationally (peer reviewed publications);
...that you have judged the work of others (supervised and/or examined Ph.D. candidates);
...that you have consulted to governments;
...that you have repeatedly been invited as guest speaker at conferences, trade fairs or universities;
...that you won major international scholarships and awards (e.g. best paper awards at conferences, Masters's/doctoral scholarships from prestigious universities like Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard or MIT;
...that three referees that are themselves O-1 level equivalents deem you worthy of receiving O-1 status;
...that you are a named inventor on patent applications and granted patents;
...that you have received media coverage;
...that you abilities are reflected in higher than typical compensation/salary/remuneration;
...that you won major international scholarships and awards (e.g. best paper awards at conferences, Masters's/doctoral scholarships from prestigious universities like Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard or MIT; or
...that you have published significant works (i.e., works that created impact through citations, business creation, or software systems using the methods described therein).
Usually, from an official ist similar to the above (which I re-wrote from memory here), three out of nine or so checkboxes is the lowest bar for an O-1, and if you tick all of them and work with a specialist law firm, then it should be a slam dunk; my O-1 took about six months from application to grant back in 2008 (no payments of any "expediting fees" if they exist were made as far as I know).
arguably the O-1B is more necessary than the O-1A. If you didn't have an O-1B you couldn't have a bjork come and give a concert in the US and get paid for it, you couldn't have an emma thompson come and shoot for a hollywood film and get paid for it, you couldn't hold ANY major international sporting events, etc.
The painting of idiocracy hits hard doesn't it ?
Which one did Melania qualify for? Type O 1A or O 1B?
E-1, according to Snopes, citing the Washington Post:
https://www.snopes.com/news/2025/07/02/melania-trump-einstei...
I personally find this opinion typical of HN readers, and I argue that successful influencers/pretty-people can easily beat more serious professions in terms of economic value, because the vast majority of people are more human than the average HN reader.
I think back when it was just actors, musicians, athletes, etc. it was in a time when there were gatekeepers for whether or not those people had any actual talent in an art.
Whether or not those gatekeepers were right is another matter, but there was some guy in an office in a skyscraper who you had to impress, and if you did, you could get in.
Now, that guy's effectively gone. Aiden Ross, Jack Doherty - that kind of guy - couldn't have impressed a big wig. But now, they don't have to. They have to make people pay attention to them on YouTube/Instagram/TikTok/Twitch, and that's it. And they do that and they can get people to give them insane money to do so because they want access to that audience. Quality doesn't matter anymore.
Journalist see OnlyFans. Write about it. Click send. Make money.
Being able to shove 5 inch diameter dildo 12 inches up your rectum is extraordinary ability no matter how you slice and dice it. Useless - sure.
If you slice and dice it, it’s not 5 inch or 12 inch.
Sorry couldn’t help
[flagged]
6 minute old account strikes again!
HN is getting overrun, man.
It'd be fun to see a filter similar to [dead] where you could just blissfully ignore these baity throwaway accounts.
edit: ironically to the person using a throwaway to yell racial slurs under me I do browse with [dead] visible because I find some of them amusing, more amusing than most of the throwaways even, though the funniest ones have seemingly stopped posting.
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Can you provide a source for this information?
You probably don't want to see where they pulled that fact out of...
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Imagine creating an account to make this comment!
basically, US Gov want to tax these ultra rich OnlyFans "model"
that's why they accept so much, the circulation of money would bring an enormous currency more than "traditional" job ever could
I think it's fair to say with the newly evolving markets, governments are fighting to house them and tax them
Tale as old as time.
Dial M for Melania.