Comment by tra3
1 month ago
In the style of cheap tiktoks: "There are two types of people...". My wife loves listening to her phone on max volume, but it sounds so bad compared to half decent speakers.
Also what's up with the people hiking (by themselves) with a bluetooth speaker. You're by yourself, in nature. If you want to listen to music wear headphones!!
Also why are people using speaker phones in public places at max volume. The speaker in your phone is designed to deliver the sound directly to your ear, probably at higher fidelity.
I'm loving the fact that battery technology will eventually eliminate weed wackers.
Sorry if I sound cranky, I find loud noises challenging.
It's not unreasonable to expect certain behavior in a shared space.
I'm really not sure where some of the other people replying to your comment are coming from. Forcing every human and animal you come across to listen to what you're listening to is selfish. Full stop. And not doing it costs $0, which preempts any question of resources.
Sometimes I would really rather not have the outside world isolated or noise cancelled while I'm listening to music... so I sorta get it?
But also, for all the reasons described, I just use transparency modes if I want that. That way nobody else has to hear my poor taste in music.
There are so many types of headphones that don't isolate much, including the cheapest crappy on-ears from the walkman era, there's really no excuse.
And on the few occasions where I've had no other option, it made so much more sense to set my phone to low volume and bring it close to my ear instead of holding it iut and maxing the volume.
And if I need to talk as well, many people don't know this, but there's a second smaller speaker on the opposite end of the phone, approximately one mouth-ear distance away from the microphone.
You touched a nerve for me — folks hiking with Bluetooth speakers. My god that grinds my gears. I can see an argument for playing music (at reasonable volume) while relaxing at a camp site, but on the trail it’s as aggravating as a dirt bike or snowmobile ripping along near by.
In potentially-dangerous-animal country (e.g. grizzly bears, mountain lions, etc), it could be a safety mechanism...I was told repeatedly you need to make some kind of distinctive noise regularly so they won't get startled by you rounding a bend.
those people, i've encountered them too, don't give a shit about anything let alone being safe around wildlife. If prey distress calls could be confused with music they'd be blaring that just as well.
That's what "bear bells" are for...in bear country.
Mountain lions are avoidant at all times unless it's a mother with cubs and even then they'll let you know well in advance.
Otherwise, just normal conversation, your smell with even a light breeze, and the vibrations on-trail will alert all animals to your presence.
In other words, the "trail music" theory is bullshit. They just want to listen to their music.
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lol.
that's like harley riders with unmuffled motors "for safety".
On the other hand, I remember being in japan and watching some construction vehicles in tokyo. They were surprisingly quiet. After a while I realized what it was - in the united states all construction vehicles have these annoying "beep-beep-beep" sounds while they're working (for safety).
I wonder if one day they can play those only when someone walks nearby or play in some technologically quieter way.
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These people probably don't do it for this reason, but you're correct, at least when it comes to bears.
Huh? I’ve never met anyone in the backcountry that played music to keep predators away. Even when forced to hike at dusk, the primary risk is quietly stumbling on a predator out stalking, or worse, a predator’s offspring. At most you clap every so often, maybe talk/sing to yourself, or dangle some stuff from your pack at higher risk times. Animals will do the hard work of avoiding you When you’re nearby, but its quite unnecessary to notify everything with in a 1km radius of your presence.
This is my reason for blasting music from my bicycle. Feels less rude than clicking a bell at the pedestrians and somewhat more effective at attracting attention.
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I've heard many people say the cannot stand they way earbuds feel. Just like many people said they could not breath wearing a mask.
I can sympathize with this, but
1) earbuds are not the only headphone style
2) listening to speakers is not a necessity.
So fine if you don't want to use earbuds, but not necessarily fine to annoy those around you with music/talk shows or whatever sounds you want to introduce to the enviroment.
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I can confirm the earbuds thing. Not the mask thing. Modern jelly ended "earbuds" just feel awful. They irritate my sense of momentum, never stay in, and it constantly feels like I have altitude pressure buildup in my ear canal when I wear them. The old hard plastic first generation iPod style in-ear earphones however I have had no problem with. Gravity keeps those in place and so there isn't that constant pressure of expansion in your ears. Those or over-ear headphones are what should be recommended to people, and if neither of those options work then they're just using it as an excuse.
I found some good bone-conduction headphones... very comfy, only $35, Shokz-style. Full-day battery.
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Maybe go without headphones and pay attention to your surroundings instead. I have zero patience for such excuses from people who choose to impose their preferences on other people.
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I can't stand the way earbuds feel. That's why I wear over-the-ear headphones or bone-conducting headphones. There are so many options for personal audio. Even if you're truly allergic to all of them, that doesn't give you the right to inflict your noise on others.
Imagine if everyone decided they were entitled to play their music on speakers. The result would be a cacophony where nobody can hear their own music and life is worse for everyone. People who play music in public spaces are claiming a common resource for their own exclusive use.
Sincerely - someone who's lived with 7 other people in a 3-bedroom house.
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I'm one of those people - I find any "in-ear" headphone/earbud to be outrageously uncomfortable.
Great news - there are a TON of alternatives! You're still an asshat if you play loud music without regard for your surroundings.
My personal pick? Get a bone conduction headset (ex: Shokz or cheaper alternative). Comfortable, lightweight, waterproof, you can still hear your surroundings.
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Why would earbuds be the defacto standard here? Get headphones. They're great, I promise. I'll even send a link https://www.bestbuy.com/product/sennheiser-momemtum-4-wirele...
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Tough shit. "I don't like how earbuds feel" does not mean you should feel free to add noise pollution to everyone else's day.
Regardless, earbuds are only one type of headphone. I'm sure someone with an earbud sensitivity can find another type that works well. And if not, again: tough shit; no music for you.
There are a lot of different types of headphones.
I recommend Koss Porta Pros with Yaxi pads.
Just get the shower style ones.
I think it’s cultural to do this or something.
definitely not cultural
now, imagine showing up to a hike and the person youre meeting whips one of these out and proceeds to blast rap music. its happened to me and it feels like Seinfeld but 2020s
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I'm with you. IMO sound pollution is no different than 2nd hand smoke. IMO It should not be anyone's right to impose upon others, especially when there are lower externality options. Wear headphones.
"Not everyone owns headphones" is such a dumb response because 1. This entertainment is purely optional (not needed for survival) and 2. There are $4 headphones on amazon making me believe in cheaper/poorer markets you could get them for about 1/2 that.
Go to SF. people carrying 24inch speakers on their back blaring music walking down market street
Or the DJ school at 20th and Mission playing music outdoors every Friday
Secondhand smoke is toxic and physically damages your body and enters your bloodstream.
Someone playing music is annoying and does not physically harm you in any way.
These are not remotely the same thing. There is a clear bright line between them.
Unwanted noise affect stress level which has an impact in health.
It is not just harmless annoyance and not everyone is equal in that regard.
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It stresses me out and distracts me from what I'm doing. You have no right to do that and I will ruin your day if you try.
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Someone playing music is annoying and does not physically harm you in any way.
Tell that to someone wearing hearing aids or implants. I'm fairly sure, they feel differently.
I find it absurd that music in cafés and restaurants has become so loud that it’s hard to have conversations with the people on your table. Sound pollution is a real thing.
I bet it's by design. If you actually make things pleasant you might accidentally create a third place and no one can profit from that!
To be contrarian: If people are comfortable they stick around and keep ordering more stuff.
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In restaurants it doesn’t make sense, because you usually have the table for 2 hours after which the staff will remind you it’s time to leave (in Germany).
For cafe, sure!
I find that sound design is famously awful in most public spaces!
For example, train stations tend to have high ceilings, so announcements are loud and full of echoes and reverbs. [0]
I think of sound a bit like WiFi: it’s better to have tons of low power speakers everywhere delivering a clear and non aggressive sound, than a handful of screaming speakers in a tight space: if you’re next to it it’s too loud, and far away it’s drown in reverb.
My guess is that architects and everyone else either don’t know or don’t care.
[0]: like the new Munich Main Station under construction, slide 2: https://entdecken.muenchen.de/en/station/26-4/
"with this music we are a happening trendy place!"
(and nobody will notice during slow times that we donn't actually have that many customers)
The night clubs I went to in the nineties had loud music and low lights so talking to anyone was a challenge.
That's true of nightclubs today, and I think that's just expected and normal? I'd go to a club to hear music, dance, and drink. Sure, sometimes you might stop to try to talk a little bit, but that's not the primary activity.
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hey, it's hard for the employees to enjoy their muzak over the din of all of your conversations!
It's because they don't want you sitting there for any longer than it takes to eat your meal. They deliberately have tile floors and hard walls to amplify the noise.
I get that, but what about the next time I think about where to go?
Floors are more about cleaning, tbh.
> I'm loving the fact that battery technology will eventually eliminate weed wackers.
I've moved to all electric lawn equipment. Snow blower, lawn mower, weed wacker, leaf blower. They all work great, are quieter, and I don't have to deal with carburetors and oil ever again.
Side benefit: Our electric push mower has enough LED lights on it for some reason that I can mow after sunset. I've mowed the grass at 9pm without disturbing anyone and its magic.
I only moved halfway. I had some electronic failure in one of my more expensive battery powered purchases, and the thing was just dead. There's no servicing it for any reasonable cost. For more important things, I'd rather have a two stroke engine I can work on myself. For everything else, battery operated is the way to go.
My battery-powered lawnmower died once.
After I took the handle apart and undid some connections, I diagnosed it as a bad switch.
I fixed it by making a small hole in the switch body with a hand-held drill bit, shaking some water out of it, spraying in some Corrosion-X, and exercising it while watching its performance improve on my meter.
In terms of cost: It took about 40 minutes to get from "WTF?" to "Fixed!", along with maybe 3 cents of the magic spray stuff and some tools I already owned.
>Also what's up with the people hiking (by themselves) with a bluetooth speaker. You're by yourself, in nature. If you want to listen to music wear headphones!!
I'm baffled by this too, but I think some people get accustomed to just having a soundtrack around them at all times, like they're living in a Hollywood movie. It gets to the point where they actually sleep with something always on (in the old days that would be a TV, not sure today. Probably a podcast)
> what's up with the people hiking (by themselves) with a bluetooth speaker. You're by yourself, in nature. If you want to listen to music wear headphones!!
Finally, it's my time to shine. OK, so I do this. Granted, I hike spots where I rarely run into other people. I listen to music out in nature because:
- I enjoy it and it creates a mood.
- I don't wear headphones because I want to be comfortable but I also want to hear the environment (for safety and enjoyment reasons).
- It also lets bears and cougar know I am around.
Finally, nature isn't new to me. I've spent significant amounts of time in the remote woods alone -- even living in the woods for some time. Not that it's boring by any stretch, but it's also not a novel experience to me.
But yeah, it'd be rude to be doing it where other people are trying to enjoy nature.
I can appreciate the reasons you have for wanting it. The only problem is when it affects my hiking experience. It annoys the crap out of me to hear it coming loudly from down the path when I just want to listen to nature.
Like the other commenter posted, you can use open earbuds, which I use as well for the same reasons.
As far as wild cats go, they are already pretty good at knowing you are there already without a speaker. Where I live there are many mountain lions and bobcats but I have never seen one close up, same in the California Sierra. In terms of bears, if they aren't black bears then yeah although it depends on where you are hiking. If it's in the backcountry, please pause it when I come by.
I've recently started trying open ear phones for other reasons and I've found the current state of the art pretty good in terms of sound quality. I use Nothing's open ears, but I'm sure there are many others that are equally good. They won't act as cougar alerters, but if you want to listen to both music and the environment where others are around, the tech is ready
> But yeah, it'd be rude to be doing it where other people are trying to enjoy nature.
Right, so you are a hiking music-player, but also a person who is sensitive to the experiences of others and not a douche. I think this thread is about the douchey people who do this in much more crowded spaces than you're used to. Maybe they have the same justifications as you have when you're alone, but they just don't hold water for me when there are other people around.
> Also what's up with the people hiking (by themselves) with a bluetooth speaker. You're by yourself, in nature. If you want to listen to music wear headphones!!
Washington Department of Natural Resources recommended bluetooth speaker playlists for hiking:
https://unofficialnetworks.com/2022/08/20/washington-roasts-...
> Also what's up with the people hiking (by themselves) with a bluetooth speaker.
Boy, that one really gets to me when I'm on the trail. Both hikers and mountain bikers are guilty of that. Also, the people with their AirPods in oblivious to anything going on around them...
So, people playing music around them is bad, and people playing music just to themselves is also bad?
Yes, but they're different kinds of bad. People playing music publicly are being obnoxious to everyone else, while people playing music privately are putting themselves at risk. (Not so much when hiking, but IMHO wearing headphones while cycling in traffic is suicidal.)
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At least AirPods have an excellent transparency mode
> Also what's up with the people hiking (by themselves) with a bluetooth speaker. You're by yourself, in nature. If you want to listen to music wear headphones!!
I've not done this, and I don't think I would ever do this, but I can sympathize with having the idea that they don't want to be so isolated from nature so as to have headphones blocking out the sounds of the world around them dampened, but also feel like it would be super sweet if they could listen to Bowie right now.
It's also been shown that having music reduces the feeling of loneliness, having similar effects to having had a conversation recently, so if a person is hiking along perhaps it offers them companionship?
_If_ I ever did this (I wouldn't) I'd probably have it down to a whisper such that you would hardly be able to make it out unless you were right beside me.
What are you doing out in nature if you need to be around music and feel lonely? Stay in the city, leave the country to people who want to actually get a break from the city for their mental health.
In my case, listening to other people's music damages my mental health. If I encounter someone on a trail with music (this has not happened here in the northeast to me yet) they'll encounter a string of direct to-face insults from me.
Lol please don't gate keep "nature". As if the only people who play music on a hike are from or belong in cities.
The nice thing about the great outdoors is that there is plenty of space for you and me, even if I were to play music you can audibly detect from a meter away.
Look, I hope you find some other ways than insulting people to express your displeasure in the future. That'll damage both the mental health of the person your speaking to and your own!
Take care out there!
When you are hiking there is actually a ton of noise/songs to listen to. Especially birds.
I've a smallish lawn so I've just been using wired yard tools my whole life. Have to be careful to mind the extension cord but it's dead simple and zero-maintenance. My lawnmower is just about old enough to run for President. Just make sure you get the right cable gauge for your mower, since you're dealing with long-enough runs that resistance loss in the cable is substantial and Home Depot just wants to sell you 100 foot 16 gauge thing that probably shouldn't be anywhere near a proper lawnmower.
I've found myself wishing I had a bluetooth speaker crossing meadows in bear country. It gets old singing Yellow submarine's chorus for the 35th time. Bears will hide if they hear you, if you surprise them and they get scared you might have a bad time.
Hopefully the rest of the world will eventually follow the Netherlands attempts to limit noise in cities by design
[1]:https://youtu.be/CTV-wwszGw8?t=202
I get you, I also prefer quiet.
But I have a question:
> I'm loving the fact that battery technology will eventually eliminate weed wackers.
Is this a non-sequitur, or a euphemism/figure of speech/etc. which I have never previously encountered?
I think the following line puts it into more context:
> I find loud noises challenging.
They're basically comparing other people's speaker music to noise pollution. Two stroke engines can be heard from a long way off, and I've got box fans that are louder than my electric weedwhacker.
I think he means that electric handheld lawn equipment should be much quieter than gas-fired lawn equipment which is an infamous nuisance
Just unsolicited sharing of their own personal preferences with the rest of the forum readers
I am with you on speakers on a nature hike, but I think the line blurs a bit in a city context. As long as it's not extremely loud, I find it slightly more difficult to hate on the person playing some music and moderate volume while trucks and loud motorcycles go by. If we had less of a car culture, I might feel differently about it, but there's so much noise already that in that context I kind of shrug my shoulders at it.
In a city context it's still obnoxious. In my experience these people are playing their music loudly. Like you can hear it from 2-3 blocks away, even with vehicle noise.
And the vehicle noise is expected and "necessary", in that it's a street, and of course there will be noisy cars and motorcycles on it. The noise is also easier to treat as a background buzz and tune out. Loud music is not any of those things.
Cities are a delicate balance when it comes to noise: if you live in a city, you have to acknowledge that you're living in a densely-populated place with lots of other people around, and make your peace with the fact that there will be noise. But at the same time, each individual should also do their best to avoid polluting the air with unnecessary noise. And blasting music from a giant bluetooth speaker in a backpack is 100% unnecessary, rude, and selfish.
I don't think this is really the idea behind this post
It's about enclosed spaces (airport) or open, quiet ones (hiking)
TLDR it feels better to announce yourself with some (non aggressive) music than triggering a bell.
I wouldn't use that when hiking but it is true that I sometimes use a bluetooth speaker when riding my bicycle in the city.
I don't put it at full volume but a lot of pedestrians and their dog seem to be attracted by dedicated bicycle lanes when they are built on the same level as the sidewalk. It is a good way to warn people of my presence without using a bell. Using a bell sometimes sounds a bit rude because people associate it to the use of the car horn which has become a proxy for insults instead of the warning device it used to be.
[1] I used to think pedestrians were doing it to annoy cyclists on purpose but judging by their often suprised reaction. I think it is just an unconscious behavior. Apart from bicycle lanes which aren't well marked, it is probably because the bicycle lanes are usually a smoother surface and thus more agreeable to the feet than the sidewalk thus people tend to walk on them natually.
I spent a good part of the summer weekends in the mountains which are an hour's drive from my place.
Every minute someone in the distance would be flooring whatever loud vehicle they were driving/riding - mostly motorcycles, but I've heard a few cars.
Their enjoyment is everything, screw everyone else.
> Also what's up with the people hiking (by themselves) with a bluetooth speaker. You're by yourself, in nature. If you want to listen to music wear headphones!!
Wife is concerned about bears
I was in downtown seattle recently and these homeless people play music on giant bluetooth speakers.
It was kind of surreal - sketchy looking person playing high-pitched voice female vocals (imagine k-pop).
Every person is just a few missed meals and showers away from being a "sketchy looking person" even k-pop lovers. The majority of Americans are precariously close to ending up homeless.
I used to work in Pioneer Square, and there was a guy with a "portable" (think desktop PC in a milk crate, bungie corded to a foldable dolly) gaming pc playing on the regular. Granted this is back a bit.
Seattleites are a resourceful lot.
If I'm hiking or cycling alone through the woods with high bear populations, I will often play some music to alert them to prevent an unpleasant encounter.
> Also what's up with the people hiking (by themselves) with a bluetooth speaker. You're by yourself, in nature. If you want to listen to music wear headphones!!
I used to hold this same opinion. Unfortunately, times have changed and now everyone is constantly in their phones, isolated in their own universes, typically with earbuds or headphones. At least the obnoxious speaker dude is present; in a shared physical reality with the world around him. A lesser evil.
This is why god invented bone conducting headphones
That’s still not a shared experience.
I also sound cranky a lot lately when complaining about loud or unwelcome sounds in public spaces. So this project (and your comment) resonates with me.
Also yes, hiking with a bluetooth speaker is particularly galling. you're in nature! For that reason I've been considering buying (or building) a portable bluetooth jammer. I wouldn't do all the time, no reason to punish someone using wireless earphones respectfully. It'd need to have a trigger for JIT intervention.
there are many sibling/child comments here touching the bluetooth speaker topic.
obviously there are numerous people blasting those in public places in waay too high volume.
sometimes when I ride bicycle in non-car road (cycle/hiking paths around luxembourg) i put not-too-loud music playing on phone speaker (about 70% volume) both for vibes and also for safety. -- as there are people walking which may be obstructed by the bushes or other oncoming cyclists.
for the vibes part, i am really hoping smart-glasses or similar equipment to be more common, as i got echo frames last year, i am quite happy about the vibe it adds when i play background music (just to myself) in different occasions. (even though quality is not great)
many people mentioned headphones & earbuds, but i do not see them as the solution for nature/hiking related situations;
- (partial) blocking of external sounds, even if there is no noise cancellation, it dims outside sounds like bike bells, engine sounds, other people yelling at you because you are in danger, ie. may cause accidents
- comfort & compatibility issues with other equipment. like hearing aid (maybe that's the reason some people blasting away such high volumes? -- maybe never hearing loss haven't diagnosed properly!). if you have a helmet, over-head headphones usually dont work, stuck with ear-buds. fit and comfort of these are quite difficult. even if you use over-head ones, cushions usually go bad quite fast due to mild sweating or contact with external air & humidity.
i really hope price of bluetooth-speaker or bone-speaker glasses will go down significantly in the future. this way, you don't obstruct external sounds, not add heavy or squishy things to your ear while adding your theme song on a moment.
---
obviously i mention these as a reasonable human being, who keeps their phone in silent 7/24, and all videos muted all the time (i also mute my laptop, as i hate hearing other people's zoom/chime calls constantly ringing throughout the day!)
The way I look at it when it comes to the comfort bits: if you aren't comfortable using headphones to listen to your music in a public place (for fit or safety or whatever reasons), then you don't get to listen to your music. It's just basic common courtesy. I find it mind-blowing that there are so many comments in this subthread supporting this sort of behavior.
I guarantee you that your 70% volume music while cycling is audible to people much farther from you than you think, and that many of those people are probably annoyed by it.
If you're not comfortable tolerating a wide range of sometimes abrasive behaviors from the hugely-divergent set of people you might encounter in public then you don't get to go out in public. Hopefully you make enough money you can afford to insulate yourself from others.
I find it mind-blowing that so many commenters in this thread forgot the 2nd half of the golden rule: Be conservative in your outputs and liberal with your inputs.
> Also what's up with the people hiking (by themselves) with a bluetooth speaker. You're by yourself, in nature. If you want to listen to music wear headphones!!
Maybe they don't know of or don't have access to bone conducting earphones. Whatever they're listening to, that way they'd also still hear their environment.
>Maybe they don't know of or don't have access to...
Maybe they don't know of or don't have any access to any sense of boundaries, as if they skipped the infant stage of development where they should have learned that "mom" is another person with her own coequal set of needs. And anybody with the urge to push back on this notion, please cover the case where it might apply to you to.
If you can't listen to your music without polluting the noise landscape around you, then you don't get to listen to your music. The excuse you present is a selfish one.
Yea, with you on that one. Headphones are great at the house where I have a controlled environment. When I'm out and listening to things I'll typically only use one at a time because it's easy to miss very important, possibly deadly things.
They're obviously not the most affordable things around, but if you have an iPhone and spending ~US$250 on a pair of wireless earbuds won't unduly stress your budget, the transparency mode on AirPods Pro is great for this.
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Wearing headphones while hiking is uncomfortable, and wearing earbuds for any length of time is always uncomfortable - hiking or not. They also fall out.
As others have said - not really a big deal. Either get ahead of them and maintain a significant distance, or stay behind and do so.
It is a big deal. It means for a lot of people there's nowhere they can go to actually enjoy the sound of nature. The strategy of getting ahead or staying behind doesn't work when there are switchbacks or crowded trails. The strategy that does work is to get fit enough to go deep into the backcountry because the troglodytes that bring speakers to hikes lack the discipline to ever get that far.
> The strategy of getting ahead or staying behind doesn't work when there are switchbacks or crowded trails.
If a trail is crowded, you won't hear much of the sound of nature, whether someone is playing music or now.
It all depends on where you live, and what access you have. Nature is not far from me, so I have several options within an hour's drive.
No. This is YOUR problem. If you want to play your own music on a speaker, you're making your problem everyone else's problem. Grow up.
You are being needlessly triggered, to the point that you're not parsing the thread well.
1. I didn't say I do this. It's not my problem.
2. You're exaggerating by saying "everyone else's problem". As is clear from the thread, only certain people view it as a problem.
I also don't like people taking selfies on trails. But I know how not to have my contentment be affected by minor problems.
Learn to share the trail and live with others different from you.
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https://shokz.com
There you go. Quite comfortable, don’t have to stick them inside your ears, and still allows you to perceive the sounds around you.
In the spirit of fairness, I’ll also share the cons from my experience: First is battery life isn’t as good as headphones. That’s somewhat obvious as they’re much smaller, but they will still last you the whole day so not really an issue for hiking. Second one is that because they don’t block outside sounds, they’re not appropriate for audiobooks/podcasts while walking in the city. Again, not an issue for hiking.
Whether they realize it or not, most of the population can't afford this. Cheap Bluetooth speakers are, well, cheap!
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Yes, you are a crank, but you are not alone. Either way, we should at least acknowledge the crankiness.
Not everyone owns headphones. Some people might have received the speaker as a gift or decided on the speaker instead of headphones. How people spend their time outdoors is not up to you or I to decide. If they want to listen to music from a bluetooth speaker, that's what they want to do. There's a lot more outdoors for you to use as well so rather that stewing, just find more outdoors. Especially on trails. Just keep going. Or wait until they have kept going. I've never seen a bluetooth speaker that's big enough for someone to be on a trail with that doesn't "go away" after a minute or so.
I have discussed the speaker on trails issue with friends, and we've noticed that the louder one's speaker is the shittier the music it is playing.
> How people spend their time outdoors is not up to you or I to decide. If they want to listen to music from a bluetooth speaker, that's what they want to do.
What if it interferes with my desire to NOT listen to their music on their bluetooth speaker?
> There's a lot more outdoors for you to use as well so rather that stewing
There are also many deep caves in which you can listen to music on speakers. Why aren't you going to these caves?
The societal contract is that your freedom stops where your neighbours freedom starts. This also applies to the noise you produce.
Often when I encounter a person loudly listening to music or videos on their phone in a cafe, it's because they are completely unaware of how loud they are or they obviously have some challenging psychological issues ( I live in SF ).
I have a lot of wired headphones I got off of Temu, I just give them a pair.
What % of the time does it work?
Any adverse experiences (e.g. punch in the face)?
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How people spend their time outdoors is not up to you or I to decide.
If they're blasting music in a normally quiet place, they are deciding for me. You're literally giving priority to whoever chooses to be less considerate of others.
> Not everyone owns headphones. Some people might have received the speaker as a gift or decided on the speaker instead of headphones. How people spend their time outdoors is not up to you or I to decide. If they want to listen to music from a bluetooth speaker, that's what they want to do. There's a lot more outdoors for you to use as well so rather that stewing, just find more outdoors. Especially on trails. Just keep going. Or wait until they have kept going. I've never seen a bluetooth speaker that's big enough for someone to be on a trail with that doesn't "go away" after a minute or so.
I am very open to the argument of "you do you", which is pretty much my philosophy also. But I do think there are /some/ limits to this, because some behaviors are inherently anti-social. My philosophy is more than "you do you" should apply to policy and regulation, meaning that we should not criminalize or directly punish anti-social behaviors that don't cause direct and immediate harm. But that definitely does not mean that we should not shame people for acting in completely inappropriate ways, or directly inform them that their behavior is unwelcome, or otherwise seek to ensure that we act to exist in spaces devoid of anti-social behavior.
I've had this same exact scenario happen, and I simply spoke to the person and told them to lower the volume, use headphones, or stop altogether because they were scaring away the wildlife that I was there to see and photograph. They apologized, lowered the volume, and we both went back to doing our own thing. Most people are reasonable, and act in anti-social ways due to lack of awareness not malice. We are both sharing the trail, and we are both there to experience nature, and that very well might include many different modalities (including accompanying music), but if someone is acting in a way that completely prevents me from enjoying nature I definitely have the right to say something, to complain about it, and to complain about it after the fact, and "you do you" is not a valid argument in response to that.
> Most people are reasonable, and act in anti-social ways due to lack of awareness not malice.
Sometimes. I’m pretty sure that very often it’s because they simply do not care that they are being rude/inconsiderate/whatever. But even the willfully rude will likely lower the volume if you ask them nicely because not caring about being rude is not the same as wanting confrontation.
I've been on both ends of this. One of the local parks allowed for permits to use amplified sound which we took advantage of about once a month weather permitting. Lots of complaints to the point I often interacted with police. We showed them the permit, we'd show dB readings from a meter, the police would leave, we'd keep going. It's a public place being used in a way allowed by those that be. There's no bluetooth speaker today that can compare to our use of amplified sound.
We all have rights to be in public parks/trails/etc. Cities have ordinances about nuisance things like loud anything. If you're on a trail and someone comes along with a speaker you don't like, just let them pass. They aren't hurting anyone/thing, you're just annoyed. If you've plopped down in the park or at the beach when someone else comes along, you can talk to them about, but they again have rights to do it.
You are free to talk to your local representatives to change ordinances if that's how you feel. Good luck with that if that's what you so choose.
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It's simple. You do you, but don't bother other people. That's all there is to it.
This is probably the most perfect illustration of toxic empathy I have ever read.
> How people spend their time outdoors is not up to you or I to decide.
Hiking trails and parks are public spaces, and we absolutely do get to decide how people spend their time there. I've seen parks and trails where the sign at the entrance/trailhead says no amplified music (among other restrictions). Selfish people of course ignore these signs and damage the experience for everyone around them.
> How people spend their time outdoors is not up to you or I to decide.
Oh no, it absolutely is. Societies have laws, and even just social norms, that don't stop applying "outdoors". Unless you're in the ocean, I suppose.
Pack out what you pack in. Stay on the trail. No loudspeakers. Very simple.
100%
I'd argue that unspoken rules apply even more strongly in actual outdoors setting, because a good number of those norms actually have serious consequences when violated. Anybody seriously hiking or offroading gets to save a non-zero number of behinds of people who ignored those rules, every single year.
And they also know they need to rely on those rules, because they might get them out of trouble too. The outdoors is not always friendly.
The "No speakers" thing is just the "let's try not be an ass to the same person who might need to pull me out of a ravine next" part of the rules.
Of the three you mention, only one is the law in every public land place I've hiked.[1]
Staying on the trail is mostly a suggestion for your safety (and to preserve the area) - definitely not a law.
Ditto for loudspeakers. People often go into nature and throw concerts.
[1] OK - trails in state parks and perhaps some national parks likely have more rules. But trails in general public lands (BLM, forest, etc)? Not many.
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I can assure you some of them also very much apply in the ocean.