1. The last 3 cars from the Iryo train (Frecciarossa 1000) derailed for unknown reasons. It's a straight line, so this is extremely rare.
2. The Renfe train (Alvia) didn't have time to break and hit the derailed trains from Iryo, the two first cars derail as a consequence of the impact.
3. The Iryo train(Frecciarossa 1000), that caused the accident, was manufactured in 2022 and it passed a technical inspection just 4 days ago.
4. The renovation of this specific part of the infrastructure finished on May 2025, so it's practically new.
Spanish high speed trains are one of the best in the world and it had plenty investment from governments of different sign over the years. This has nothing to do with the regional network (Cercanias) and the local struggles in certain regions.
IMHO, this is a horribly timed accidental technical issue.
> 3. The Iryo train(Frecciarossa 1000), that caused the accident, was manufactured in 2022 and it passed a technical inspection just 4 days ago.
The inspection is a risk factor. There is data from the aviation industry for example that engine incidents on an engine that is certified for some thousands of hours of operation between inspection happen disproportionally in the first 100 hours (and then again at the end of the inspection interval). The inspection itself is an intervention that causes incidents.
Train inspections are far less intrusive. Wheel wear can be measured with calipers while standing beside the train. Software tests are physically null, except for alarms sounding. Brakeline tests can be verified without adding gauges; in many cases the braking mechanisms are externally observable.
Plane controls systems all live behind thin, deformable metal or plastic covers.
Trains aren't perfect, obv, but most train accidents reduce to "A human on the tracks fucked up". Drivers trying to maintain schedules by speeding, or vehicles or humans standing on rails where they had no business being (dodging crossing guards, suicide, etc).
Came here to say. I don’t know enough about their inspection guidelines and how intrusive it is on the train’s systems, but anytime you do something outside the norm (including inspections) you introduce a variable that may have played a part.
The machinist union requested the maximum speed to be lowered from 300 km/h to 250 km/h on multiple areas, the one where the accident happened being one of them. Both trains were driving under 210 km/h when the accident happened, so I don't think the "rattling" they reported was the issue.
As I mentioned before, this area was renovated last year, so attributing the accident to under-funding is highly unlikely. If the infrastructure happened to be the issue at the end, it might be because of different causes: eg. Planning the wrong materials for the amount of traffic / weather conditions / etc.
In general, when you talk about under-funding in the rail network it's often regional or small areas within the inter-city (larga distancia) and transport networks. High speed infrastructure is very well financed, it's not cheap to move trains close to 300 km/h.
Doesn't need to be underfunding, may 2025 was last summer and this was the first winter, defects in laying the tracks didn't have a chance to show up until now.
The biggest part then might be that they should have listened to the operators warnings and scheduled a proper re-inspection of the route once they started warning of issues.
You seem very well informed, so I'm sure you've read that every single railway engineer and independent expert is saying that this seems like a freak accident and that the causes are totally unknown.
Knowing this, you're still all over the thread trying to score political points while there are dead people still on the tracks. One quick glance on your posting history is all one needs to see that you're happy to take any chance to do so, apparently including the death of at least 39 people. You disgust me. Y te creerás un "español de los buenos". Felicidades, patriota.
There are reports from passengers that the train rattled before the accident. So my guess is a broken wheel rim and subsequently the train derailed at the track switch then also damaging the opposite track.
Accident location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/Cek9DgChguXJxVpd6 The italian is about 400m north at the technical building with the two antennas.
Assuming no foul play, it's going to be a Points Failure, isn't it? Like Potters Bar (2002) where most of the train makes it through, but rattles/breaks some weak point that was just holding on, and the last carriages change tracks. But at 250mph. Shocking stuff.
This is tragic, but I hope it doesn't put a damper on Spanish high-speed train development. They've really done a remarkable job building out their network in a cost-effective manner.
In point number 3, you state that one of the trains caused the accident, whereas the cause of the accident is not yet known and could be for example an issue in the rails themselves.
Yes, that was not accurate and you're correct, it's still not clear what caused the first train to derail to begin with.
The way I looked at it is that the first train derailing wasn't a big issue, I don't think it caused any injuries. What was really catastrophic was the impact with the second train.
I don't think Russians are directly behind this. They targeted trains in Poland twice, but I suspect the next targets would be in Germany, France and the UK, and not Spain which is relatively conservative in supporting Ukraine.
The most important context is this image[1] from the Guardia Civil. Using Google Maps, and using as context the tree, post and yellow connection box in the image, we can place its location at 180m before the accident in the tracks of the Iryo train. The image appears to show a track welding failure. This would match the reports of some passengers[2] that reported that the "train started shaking violently" before the accident.
Photo at 38.00771000519087, -4.565435982666953
Accident at 38.009292813090475, -4.564960554581273
Just a few weeks ago, terrorists twice tried to sabotage rail lines in Poland, endangering a passenger train with hundreds of people.
> "[Prime Minister Donald] Tusk said that a military-grade C4 explosive device had been detonated on 15 November at about 21:00 (20:00 GMT) near the village of Mika."
> "The explosion, which happened as a freight train was passing, caused minor damage to a wagon floor. It was captured on CCTV."
> "Tusk said the train driver had not even noticed the incident."
> "A previous attempt to derail a train by placing a steel clamp on the rail had failed, he added."
> "The second act of sabotage, on 17 November, involved a train carrying 475 passengers having to suddenly brake because of damaged railway infrastructure, said Tusk."
Wouldn't the gap simply be the result of loss of tension after the weld broke? Metal expands in the heat (about 1cm per degree C per km). Weather shows it got down to around 0C in Córdoba last night while the summer record is around 47C so one would expect a fairly large gap once tension is released.
Looks like a pull-apart: bad weld, then cold weather caused contraction from both sides making a gap. Pretty massive for a pull-apart but not impossible.
If sabotage it will be plain as day to a trained eye. I await the report. That break could also be explained by the rail heading away in that photo snapping at that point because the train pushed it out, noting the rail has rotated 90 degrees clockwise -- something did that work, and it was probably the train going out and over. I'm not a rail tie expert (nor is anyone likely to be on HN) so I don't know if this is an unusual failure mode. But there was a line change point intersection immediately south of the crash. My money is there was a fault (accidental or deliberate) there, not at this snapping point.
For many years the Spanish state-owned company RENFE had a monopoly on Spain's huge high speed rail network. However their high prices, inconvenient schedules and poor customer service were often criticized, and so when, to the annoyance of RENFE and many spanish politicians, additional foreign operators entered the market on the key Madrid - Barcelona route, ridership doubled whilst ticket prices halved.
So I would standby for this tragedy to be used for political purposes to try and get foreign operators banned from Spanish tracks, regardless of the facts of the matter.
Foreign operators are mandated by the EU, they can't be banned. Spain has been one of the first countries to allow foreign high speed operators (unlike other European countries that did attempt to delay their entrance as much as possible
I have observed that it is a recurring pattern. I am most aware of the behind the scenes in public education, but I believe it is across the board.
Massive efforts are done to implement reforms to conform to EU standards, believing that that’s how the “superior” EU members do it (Germany, NL, Nordics…). But then I go there and I see that their system has nothing to do with the standards and they are not doing much to conform.
It’s fine, these reforms are often beneficial for Spain, and I do believe that generally being in the EU is a big win-win. Although sometimes it’s just a lot of unnecessary reshuffling at great cost.
A certain segment of the Spanish population really looks up to northern EU countries, or rather they feel a sense of inferiority. In practice there is not all that much to look up to and I believe Spain should be feel more confident. Many great things are prevented by the widespread belief that we are in a shitty country and that everyone is useless, but it is just not true.
France, for example, has been trying to delay allowing Renfe (Spanish operator) to operate through the country as much as possible, while their public operator SNCF (branded as Ouigo) has been able to operate here since 2021.
Unless there is evidence that the accident was caused by the Iryo train, I wouldn’t be so fast to blame the private companies on a decaying infrastructure.
There are plenty of cases of lack of maintenance in the railway network.
> So I would standby for this tragedy to be used for political purposes
This is an ignorant opinion. For multiple reasons.
Derailing under these circumstances is a track issue, which means ADIF, the state's infrastructure maintainer, is under suspicion. Not operators, the state's infrastructure maintainer.
Liberalization of the railway sector is an EU-wide mandate. It's not some whimsical slip of a single country's leadership.
Years ago there was an AVE derailment in Santiago de Compostela. No one banned RENFE from the lines.
If you’re interested in this kind of thing, look up plainly difficult on youtube. He has more videos on train crashes than I’ve seen, and I’m embarrassed how many I’ve seen. Here’s one to get you started: https://youtu.be/VV2rIHEp5AM?si=sSBT9s49PqbLTGbt
There are a lot of safety lessons embedded in these videos, which is why I like them. I also did a double take when I heard "semaphore"; its history goes back far longer than the ~century of software engineering. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semaphore
Oh you silly duck! Semafor is a common word in a handful of other languages for things like traffic lights and such. I had to do a double take when I first saw it in a programming class.
Also hope you’re doing well it’s been a minute since our paths crossed on gdnet.
"Semaphore" is (old) Greek and means "sign (sema) bearer (phore)", and actually the meaning in railways and computing is more or less the same: in computing, a semaphore signals if a resource is in use; in railways, the resource is a segment of a railway line, and the user is a train.
I don't want to speculate on this crash but my mental model for these things is that there's always a handful of factors that all align and converge to create an accident. Some factors are deep-rooted - and point to decisions made years ago - sometimes related to company culture. Theres always an element of operator error: someone ignored something due to inattention or sleepiness.
The Italians designed it but won't run it at more than 300km/h in Italy citing local infrastructure concerns. I guess that leaves other countries to find the edge cases. I'll be interested to find out how fast it was going during the crash.
AnsaldoBreda did also manufacture the Fyra trains for the short-lived high-speed trains here in The Netherlands. After three trains lost parts in the first month, it was banned from operations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fyra
Looks like a Frecciarossa 1000 derailed in 2020 but it was due to a manufacturer defect in a track switch replaced the night before.
The defect was not caught by the manufacturer or the system operator. It was due to two crossed wires in an assembly.
I know a lot more engineering goes into these trains due to the higher stakes. Japan’s high speed rail hasn’t had a fatal accident in 60 years. I’m wondering what the cause of this will turn out to be.
Japan's shinkansen system has never had a fatal accident, except for one incident in 1995 where someone got killed at a station because he was caught in a door as the train departed the station (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mishima_Station_incident). No one has ever died in a derailing, crash, etc.
Actually the defect was detected by the operators, who installed it that night. They disabled the switch, but apparently this didn't reach the day shift.
Not to go too off-topic but what was the last word on the internet blackout and also the (unrelated) stolen train cable wire incidents from last year? Were there any satisfying conclusions?
In both you had people saying wait till the thorough investigation finishes, but I don't recall any commotion or bells and whistles around any final reports on those events. Unless I totally missed it of course.
No idea but yeah of course it's a common tactic to squash criticism by being all haughty and saying everyone must wait for official investigations etc. There's middle ground. Especially when proper journalism is basically non existent these days
I knew this would come up so specifically searched for the comment. And I knew the death rate for cars would be >>>> than trains.
HOWEVER, there is something unique scary about a single incident that kills more people that fit in a typical car. Combined with the fact that you have 0 control over it is much more frightening (for lack of a better word) than car static deaths.
Just my opnion, may not be rational but I'd still rather be behind the wheel?
I may feel in control inside of my car, but it's up to the rest of the general populace to not T-bone me and kill me on every intersection and roundabout I pass. Every corner is a risk where someone can steer into my lane and cause a frontal collision. Every highway off-ramp, a suicidal driver may try to kill himself against my car. Every truck I pass is a possible burst tyre away from crushing me against the barriers. And that's outside of the car; pedestrians are at the whim of any vehicle.
Most people usually behave on the road, stick to driving legally, don't drink or do drugs behind the wheel, and can manage to stop safely in dangerous situations. However, I feel like many people overestimate how well they could control their car in a dangerous scenario.
I'll take a trip by train or plane rather than by car every single time.
I feel WAY more safe knowing that the vehicle is operated by trained professionals and there's an extremely robust system around them to ensure safety, rather than whatever semblance of control I think I have driving my car.
Maybe if it's a trip I do once in a while. But going from Málaga to Madrid and back once a week, in a car, driving? Or Barcelona <> Madrid once a week? No, hard pass, I'd rather be driven by someone else, in a comfy carriage, where I can comfortably sleep or do other things in the meantime.
Me and thousands of others agree, otherwise we wouldn't have one of the most expansive train networks in the world. Spain might be larger than people think, driving to everywhere in the country while fun, isn't feasible for repeated trips, the distances are just too large.
With that said, every once in a while a road trip with a car is really nice, maybe every 1-2 years, and driving across Europe stopping when you see something interesting or driving towards interesting things you see in the distance. Hard to get that same "explorer" feeling with other modes of transportation :)
Yes, it's the same as with nuclear vs coal. A nuclear disaster is so spectacular that it attracts a lot of attention. Meanwhile, millions of kids suffering from asthma, dying of cancer, etc. don't make the 9pm news because it's harder to connect the dots.
You have to divide that by miles travelled to get a meaningful number - trains will still be a lot safer, but comparing oranges to apples doesn't help the argument
Taking the commuter train to and from Dublin, sometimes another train on the other direction passes and it's a bit unnerving. I cannot imagine such a collision between two high speed trains :(
I have the same feeling riding the TGV in France. When another train passes in the opposite direction, the pressure in the interior of the cabin even changes. Not sure if it lowers or raises, but I can definitely feel it in my ears.
Look for train collision in Greece (1), the only in a developed country. Extensive research has been done, from a simple switch malfunction to plasma scale temperatures.
As an American with no good rails, I've always been curious: what stops a crazy person from throwing a boulder onto the high speed tracks, or a raccoon getting on it, or other such derailment attempts? Is there high security electric fencing all around the track the whole route or something like that?
Animals become a fine red mist when presented with these sorts of forces. The train feels a bump, but will not crash. I'm unsure at what size a rock will cause issues, but I would expect in most cases they would be kicked away by the train without issue, if a person can move them.
Animals on tracks remain a problem, although they do not pose risk to human life (just damages to the trains). One of the attempts to protect animals include acoustic deterrents, here's a Polish one as an example [1] but they are manufactured around the world. The Polish one plays sounds of predators, dying creatures, hunting dogs, etc to scare away forest animals (search for "UOZ-1" on youtube if you want to hear the sounds). Such devices significantly lower the number of collisions but unfortunately they are not 100% effective.
The brand new fastest rail in the country is barely over half the speed of the Shanghai bullet train, so I have to disagree about our rails being "good" even in the best case.
From the aerial imagery it looks like the accident sequence started at the track switch [1]. The RENFE is rested south of it and the Iryo is north. Quite similar to the 1998 Eschede ICE accident which started with a broken wheel rim and finally derailed at a track switch.
I wonder how anybody knows that it was the Iryo train that caused the accident.
Local chats are saying that this is retaliation by a drug cartel after a 10-ton shipment of drugs was intercepted - this was reported in the news recently. In general, Spain has a long history of railway attacks carried out for mafia-linked, pseudo-political reasons.
Train crashes like this are _so_ rare. It's not as safe as flying but AFAICT in rich countries it's the same rough order of magnitude in terms of danger level.
I don't have data but I would imagine crashes on these high speed lines (which always seem to be run at a higher level of professionalism than the general networks) are rarest of all.
I don't think it's a good use of mental energy to plan for a crash like this. You're better off using your brain cycles on hygiene or not losing your luggage.
Most railway deaths in the EU are due to unauthorized people on the tracks or due to crossings. The actual number of passengers deaths has been really low in the past years.
In the EU it's safer than flying, with 0.5 deaths per 100 billion km/ passenger vs 3 deaths per 100 billion kms/ passenger. However, since an airplane flies at, let's say, six times the average speed of a train, the actual probability of dying during a 1-hour trip is almost 40 times more on a plane than on a train.
Brain cycles aren’t a limited supply. Besides, you’ll get to feel a nice jolt of serotonin when you remember to sit backwards.
> I would imagine crashes on these high speed lines (which always seem to be run at a higher level of professionalism than the general networks) are rarest of all
If this crash is anything like the other ones, you might be surprised. Safety complacency tends to cause maintenance failures. Plus the low speed lines are less deadly since the total energy is proportional to velocity squared, and v is low.
In other words, it might be more helpful to look at it as "if they’re run at a higher level of standards, it’s because they have to be".
Statistically you’re probably right, but considering how many brain cycles we waste on non-essentials, it’s just as fun to waste them on this. That way you can start a nerdy conversation with your travel companions, and they can learn to travel without you next time.
This is so rare that it's not really worth thinking about, as a passenger (of course, it should be on the _operators_ minds). You're far more likely to die getting to the station.
I feel like airplanes should be designed this way. Outside of takeoff and landing it would be pretty hard to even notice the difference, once you're seated.
At least BEA airliners used to have quite a few backward facing seats, up to half the plane.
However, there were a number of problems - people didn't like sitting in them, people didn't like hearing that their seat wasn't as safe as the others, you can't get as many rows in unless you turn them all backwards, and the structure needs to be designed differently so then you need more spares.
Huh. I'd never thought of this. If that is actually meaningfully beneficial, I wonder if they'd design self driving cars with the seats facing backwards, given there's no longer a necessity to look at the road.
(edit: I guess it's more of no-brainer on a train/bus where you don't have a seat belt)
Not the author, but I think there was some research and it's indeed better for you if you have head support, to be facing back towards the front. If prevents a whole range of injuries, from your neck, to becoming a projectile yourself.
But it's really theoretical, and does not account for the passenger in front of you headed head-first into your throat.
PS: I laughed hard that xlbuttplug2 is answering to deadbabe. The internet lives!
Sitting backwards is beneficial if looking at accidents.
But sitting backwards is very very uncomfortable if there is any kind of uneven acceleration, bumps, swaying, rolling, curvy tracks or whatever. Humans need to look forward at the horizon to get their visual stimuli aligned with their motion/balance sense in the inner ear. If that alignment isn't there, you will get seasick. Backwards makes this even worse.
Babies don't suffer from this, because closing your eyes helps, and infants don't have as strong a reaction to motions anyways, due to them usually being carried by their parents until walking age. So reverse baby seats only work for babies.
Infant car seats face backwards, they recommend backwards facing for a long as possible (until the kid is too big to fit comfortably in a backwards facing position).
It's incredibly beneficial. However many people dislike it and want to be facing the direction they are moving in, so best case is probably a train-style 4-seater. Which 2 seats facing forward and 2 backwards.
I mean if there is actually conclusive evidence that this is safer how is it not criminal to not have all trains adhere to this? The only thing I can think of is motion sickness for some sizable minority of passengers, but even then I would expect them to know the rough percentage of passengers that would discomforted enough to not get on the train.
After the TV videos, it seems that a chunk of 80cm or one meter of the railway was missing, or broke by the train passing.
Just to add context:
In 2025 August, the Spanish government blocked the attempt from Ganz MaVag Europe to buy Talgo, the main Spanish train maker. Ganz Magyar Vagon is an Hungarian company linked with Oil oligarchs close to the Victor Orban government. The government alleged National Security reasons when the National Intelligence Center started to suspect that the operation was really funded by a Russian Company, lending money to the Hungarians, via Corvinus International Investment Ltd.
So it seems that Moscow could be trying to gain access to the Spanish train technology for some reason.
Also, this crash happened in Andalucia. On 8 January 2026 the high velocity trains in Andalucia were delayed some hours by somebody stealing small amounts of copper cable from several vital parts of the system. It was ruled as common thievery, and it was not the first time. Similar events on may 2025:
Stealing copper from the Spanish railway is like an Olympic sport lately. It seems strangely common on the previous hours to a big holiday, election or major event.
The problem is causing serious economic damage and lots of troubles to the users of the Spanish Commuter rail system "Cercanias" and now escalated also to the high speed railway. The troubles with Cercanias can be often attributed to poor maintenance, but sometimes include also somebody placing rocks and trunks directly on the railway with the mere purpose to create chaos.
EU is on an hybrid war with Russia, and that there are many documented boycotts against relevant European infrastructure, like the regular cut of submarine cables. At this moment is to soon to discard anything.
For a bit of context according to the OECD 2023 Spain had ~1800 on the road during the previous year, so that's about 5/day. There are more deaths on the road in Spain in a couple of weeks than this tragic accident. Either way it's too many deaths obviously but I want to highlight what a freak event this is compared to a more popular mode of transportation.
Yes. The Frecciarossa 1000 (ETR 1000) is an EMU, and the trainset’s coaches/cars are equipped with braking equipment as part of the integrated braking system—so it’s not “only the power cars” doing the braking.
So my first gut instinct is that one wagons breaks malfunctioned and suddenly applied breaking power since it was the last two wagons that went off.
That’s how every train works since this system was made mandatory in the US in 1893(!). Asymmetric breaking does not cause cars to come off. The joint is stronger than the breaking force.
Anyway, we know it was a portion of the track that had a weld fracture.
A third train in the Cercanias railway has crashed today and derailed after finding rocks laid in the railway and losing a wheel Axle on a rock.
And of course, as in the last thousand times, it was on a very particular northern part of Spain that has lots and lots of similar sabotages in the last years. No victims this time.
One time is maybe accident, two times in two days... nope. We are obviously under attack. All high speed trains in Spain were ordered to reduce the speed to a half temporarily. If seems that somebody really, really, don't wants the Spanish president going to the Davos Forum.
A new accident today in Catalonia, three train crashes in three days of the Davos Forum with four trains involved.
The fourth train crashed against obstacles in the railway. One machinist killed and all commuter trains in the region halted until the railway is reviewed. High-speed velocity has been restored to normal values. Machinists went on strike and the narrative of poor maintenance is all around the place on internet.
The chance of this happening just by random is zero. We didn't have a train crash in Spain in years and now we have three at the same time.
Please don't post like this on HN. This kind of comment is a generic tangent (and a rather ghoulish one), that can be made about any tragedy; yes, no matter how bad something is, there's always something worse. It's the fact that this is an unusual occurrence that makes it noteworthy. The guidelines ask us to converse curiously and avoid generic tangents and shallow dismissals. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
FWIW: a single car crash killing 21 people would still be newsworthy in America. And I think if you math it out with something per capita equivalent, this would actually be an exceptionally bad day/incident for the US.
But of course you're not wrong, trains are vastly safer than private cars. If anyone uses this as evidence against having a proper rail system, they're ignorant.
But - until someone does that, there's no reason to make this about the US or cars vs. trains. It's borderline offensive to reflexively politicize this before anyone else had; it almost feels like you're intentionally trying to sow conflict, here.
One thing I learned working on a system that did train positioning for the 7 Line subway in NYC is that train systems are a lot more complicated than just straight lines. They are complicated networks with custom signaling and the trains don't necessarily travel on the usual side in the usual direction at all times.
That said, in this particular case it basically was just two straight lines side by side and one of the trains derailed and travelled into the path of the other track.
Trains don't often derail on straight sections, likely either someone fucked up really bad on rail maintenance or someone sabotaged the rail.
Every government in Spain for the last decade or more has been cutting corners in maintaining the rail networks: high speed (where this accident happened), the conventional network and commuter rail. You failed to mention the fact our budget has been extended since 2023, that the actual track where this happened was given maintenance under a year ago (per the minister, [^1]) and the train that first derailed (Iryo's ETR1000) was last checked 4 days ago.
Regarding the former Minister (Ábalos), he's awaiting trial and not yet convicted (even though, IMHO he is probably guilty), and he hasn't been in the ministry since 2021[^2] so it makes no sense to bring it up when he has been out for nearly 4.5 years now.
> The current government has been found to be cutting corners
Where do the articles mention that the current government has been cutting corners? In fact, they have increased the current investment plan on the Cercanías commuter railway network to more than 7,000 million euro, from 5.000 million that the previous government planned[1].
Now, this isn't to that the current political landscape is fine because ( as portrayed by the last articles ) is totally unacceptable, and of course that affects the rail network negatively.
I think you are just stirring the pot and cherry picking news.
"Cercanias" is a different rail network to the one where the accident happened (high-speed). Also the political issue that you are mentioning happened 5 years ago on a single individual not directly affiliated to the organization that manages the rail network. Please let's be serious and bring constructive things to the conversation
What does the "Cercanías" conmuter network in Madrid have to do with the high-speed AVE network where the accident took place? They are two different networks, and even if the first one isn't well maintained as you claim, it doesn't mean the other one has to be in the same situation.
Also, it's been four and a half years since the former Transport Minister who is in jail left the office (july 2021).
I can tell that you really don't like the current government but you should relax a little.
There is an accident with death people, maybe people still trapped there and the causes are still unknown. Too early to start playing politics, don't you think?
Anyone serious about rail engineering or safety isn't excitedly dashing off comments pointing fingers before the dust has even settled. Those who are doing that - such as the comment I am replying to - should be ignored
> The accident occurred near Atocha station, on a curve where signage indicates a speed limit of 45 kilometers per hour. However, sources consulted by this newspaper assert that the train, out of control, easily approached speeds of 90 to 100 kilometers per hour, ultimately resulting in the derailment. [...] Two mechanics who were inside the wrecked train escaped injury.
Any indication they deliberately derailed the train?
This is the problem. I'm skeptical of all our sides of government, they haven't done a lot for us to trust them, and keep chucking our trust into the bin.
But that doesn't mean we should resolve into skipping nuance, not understanding situations and critically evaluate what everyone is claiming. Mixing together two networks in order to score some cheap internet points, when the point doesn't even hold up to the most basic scrutiny, does the opposite of helping the case of proving how shit the government is.
I know nothing about Spanish politics or the railway network there, but jumping on blaming the government before even the beginning of the investigation, when we don't have a clue about the causes of the accident and when the emergency service haven't even finished recovering the victims body yet, is a revulsing attempt at political recuperation.
What is tragic is that the high tech approach here ("super-fast trains") does not put security at the forefront. This should have been the number #1 criterium from the get go, already during the planning stage. The usual reason this is not done is because of cutting down on costs, but just simple things such as: how can it be possible that another train comes by at the same time and crashes? This would not have prevented the one train going off, but you have to wonder how that is even possible design-wise to catch two trains. And even trains going off, should not be possible - this can most assuredly be detected as it happens, so what counter-measures are available to minimize damage and maximize safety?
What we know so far:
1. The last 3 cars from the Iryo train (Frecciarossa 1000) derailed for unknown reasons. It's a straight line, so this is extremely rare.
2. The Renfe train (Alvia) didn't have time to break and hit the derailed trains from Iryo, the two first cars derail as a consequence of the impact.
3. The Iryo train(Frecciarossa 1000), that caused the accident, was manufactured in 2022 and it passed a technical inspection just 4 days ago.
4. The renovation of this specific part of the infrastructure finished on May 2025, so it's practically new.
Spanish high speed trains are one of the best in the world and it had plenty investment from governments of different sign over the years. This has nothing to do with the regional network (Cercanias) and the local struggles in certain regions.
IMHO, this is a horribly timed accidental technical issue.
https://english.elpais.com/spain/2026-01-19/at-least-39-dead...
https://archive.ph/Ase0v
> 3. The Iryo train(Frecciarossa 1000), that caused the accident, was manufactured in 2022 and it passed a technical inspection just 4 days ago.
The inspection is a risk factor. There is data from the aviation industry for example that engine incidents on an engine that is certified for some thousands of hours of operation between inspection happen disproportionally in the first 100 hours (and then again at the end of the inspection interval). The inspection itself is an intervention that causes incidents.
Iatrogenesis is everywhere! Medicine, engineering, economics, politics, etc.
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Train inspections are far less intrusive. Wheel wear can be measured with calipers while standing beside the train. Software tests are physically null, except for alarms sounding. Brakeline tests can be verified without adding gauges; in many cases the braking mechanisms are externally observable.
Plane controls systems all live behind thin, deformable metal or plastic covers.
Trains aren't perfect, obv, but most train accidents reduce to "A human on the tracks fucked up". Drivers trying to maintain schedules by speeding, or vehicles or humans standing on rails where they had no business being (dodging crossing guards, suicide, etc).
Came here to say. I don’t know enough about their inspection guidelines and how intrusive it is on the train’s systems, but anytime you do something outside the norm (including inspections) you introduce a variable that may have played a part.
You left out that the machinists warned about the bad state of the railway tracks and asked for reducing the train speed[1].
There is underfunding in all the railway network.
[1]: https://www.eldebate.com/economia/20250809/maquinistas-piden...
The machinist union requested the maximum speed to be lowered from 300 km/h to 250 km/h on multiple areas, the one where the accident happened being one of them. Both trains were driving under 210 km/h when the accident happened, so I don't think the "rattling" they reported was the issue.
As I mentioned before, this area was renovated last year, so attributing the accident to under-funding is highly unlikely. If the infrastructure happened to be the issue at the end, it might be because of different causes: eg. Planning the wrong materials for the amount of traffic / weather conditions / etc.
In general, when you talk about under-funding in the rail network it's often regional or small areas within the inter-city (larga distancia) and transport networks. High speed infrastructure is very well financed, it's not cheap to move trains close to 300 km/h.
Doesn't need to be underfunding, may 2025 was last summer and this was the first winter, defects in laying the tracks didn't have a chance to show up until now.
The biggest part then might be that they should have listened to the operators warnings and scheduled a proper re-inspection of the route once they started warning of issues.
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They fixed it long before this. That newspaper it's pretty much a right wing fake news source.
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You seem very well informed, so I'm sure you've read that every single railway engineer and independent expert is saying that this seems like a freak accident and that the causes are totally unknown.
Knowing this, you're still all over the thread trying to score political points while there are dead people still on the tracks. One quick glance on your posting history is all one needs to see that you're happy to take any chance to do so, apparently including the death of at least 39 people. You disgust me. Y te creerás un "español de los buenos". Felicidades, patriota.
>You left out that the machinists warned about the bad state of the railway tracks and asked for reducing the train speed
Since two trains collided, wouldn't that have happened regardless of the state of the railway tracks?
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There are reports from passengers that the train rattled before the accident. So my guess is a broken wheel rim and subsequently the train derailed at the track switch then also damaging the opposite track. Accident location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/Cek9DgChguXJxVpd6 The italian is about 400m north at the technical building with the two antennas.
latest: https://www-elmundo-es.translate.goog/economia/2026/01/19/69...
looks like it's a rail welding failure.
Assuming no foul play, it's going to be a Points Failure, isn't it? Like Potters Bar (2002) where most of the train makes it through, but rattles/breaks some weak point that was just holding on, and the last carriages change tracks. But at 250mph. Shocking stuff.
This is tragic, but I hope it doesn't put a damper on Spanish high-speed train development. They've really done a remarkable job building out their network in a cost-effective manner.
In point number 3, you state that one of the trains caused the accident, whereas the cause of the accident is not yet known and could be for example an issue in the rails themselves.
Yes, that was not accurate and you're correct, it's still not clear what caused the first train to derail to begin with.
The way I looked at it is that the first train derailing wasn't a big issue, I don't think it caused any injuries. What was really catastrophic was the impact with the second train.
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also the derailed carriages crashed rolled down a hill which complicated things further
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I don't think Russians are directly behind this. They targeted trains in Poland twice, but I suspect the next targets would be in Germany, France and the UK, and not Spain which is relatively conservative in supporting Ukraine.
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The most important context is this image[1] from the Guardia Civil. Using Google Maps, and using as context the tree, post and yellow connection box in the image, we can place its location at 180m before the accident in the tracks of the Iryo train. The image appears to show a track welding failure. This would match the reports of some passengers[2] that reported that the "train started shaking violently" before the accident.
Photo at 38.00771000519087, -4.565435982666953
Accident at 38.009292813090475, -4.564960554581273
[1] https://img2.rtve.es/im/16899875/?w=900
[2] https://x.com/eleanorinthesky/status/2012961856520917401?s=2...
The first image looks like sabotage to me. Continuous welded rail sections are much longer than this gap.
Just a few weeks ago, terrorists twice tried to sabotage rail lines in Poland, endangering a passenger train with hundreds of people.
> "[Prime Minister Donald] Tusk said that a military-grade C4 explosive device had been detonated on 15 November at about 21:00 (20:00 GMT) near the village of Mika."
> "The explosion, which happened as a freight train was passing, caused minor damage to a wagon floor. It was captured on CCTV."
> "Tusk said the train driver had not even noticed the incident."
> "A previous attempt to derail a train by placing a steel clamp on the rail had failed, he added."
> "The second act of sabotage, on 17 November, involved a train carrying 475 passengers having to suddenly brake because of damaged railway infrastructure, said Tusk."
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gknv8nxlzo
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Wouldn't the gap simply be the result of loss of tension after the weld broke? Metal expands in the heat (about 1cm per degree C per km). Weather shows it got down to around 0C in Córdoba last night while the summer record is around 47C so one would expect a fairly large gap once tension is released.
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Looks like a pull-apart: bad weld, then cold weather caused contraction from both sides making a gap. Pretty massive for a pull-apart but not impossible.
If sabotage it will be plain as day to a trained eye. I await the report. That break could also be explained by the rail heading away in that photo snapping at that point because the train pushed it out, noting the rail has rotated 90 degrees clockwise -- something did that work, and it was probably the train going out and over. I'm not a rail tie expert (nor is anyone likely to be on HN) so I don't know if this is an unusual failure mode. But there was a line change point intersection immediately south of the crash. My money is there was a fault (accidental or deliberate) there, not at this snapping point.
For many years the Spanish state-owned company RENFE had a monopoly on Spain's huge high speed rail network. However their high prices, inconvenient schedules and poor customer service were often criticized, and so when, to the annoyance of RENFE and many spanish politicians, additional foreign operators entered the market on the key Madrid - Barcelona route, ridership doubled whilst ticket prices halved.
So I would standby for this tragedy to be used for political purposes to try and get foreign operators banned from Spanish tracks, regardless of the facts of the matter.
Foreign operators are mandated by the EU, they can't be banned. Spain has been one of the first countries to allow foreign high speed operators (unlike other European countries that did attempt to delay their entrance as much as possible
I have observed that it is a recurring pattern. I am most aware of the behind the scenes in public education, but I believe it is across the board.
Massive efforts are done to implement reforms to conform to EU standards, believing that that’s how the “superior” EU members do it (Germany, NL, Nordics…). But then I go there and I see that their system has nothing to do with the standards and they are not doing much to conform.
It’s fine, these reforms are often beneficial for Spain, and I do believe that generally being in the EU is a big win-win. Although sometimes it’s just a lot of unnecessary reshuffling at great cost.
A certain segment of the Spanish population really looks up to northern EU countries, or rather they feel a sense of inferiority. In practice there is not all that much to look up to and I believe Spain should be feel more confident. Many great things are prevented by the widespread belief that we are in a shitty country and that everyone is useless, but it is just not true.
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France, for example, has been trying to delay allowing Renfe (Spanish operator) to operate through the country as much as possible, while their public operator SNCF (branded as Ouigo) has been able to operate here since 2021.
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Unless there is evidence that the accident was caused by the Iryo train, I wouldn’t be so fast to blame the private companies on a decaying infrastructure.
There are plenty of cases of lack of maintenance in the railway network.
> Unless there is evidence that the accident was caused by the Iryo train
I'd say the same about the railway network. We don't know what happened yet.
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But like the OP says this particular infrastructure area was brand new.
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> So I would standby for this tragedy to be used for political purposes
This is an ignorant opinion. For multiple reasons.
Derailing under these circumstances is a track issue, which means ADIF, the state's infrastructure maintainer, is under suspicion. Not operators, the state's infrastructure maintainer.
Liberalization of the railway sector is an EU-wide mandate. It's not some whimsical slip of a single country's leadership.
Years ago there was an AVE derailment in Santiago de Compostela. No one banned RENFE from the lines.
>Derailing under these circumstances is a track issue, which means ADIF, the state's infrastructure maintainer, is under suspicion.
This is the most likely outcome, but it is not as cut-and-dried as you are presenting it.
It could be a broken rail weld, it could be track sabotage, it could be a broken wheel or bogie... we don't know yet.
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If you’re interested in this kind of thing, look up plainly difficult on youtube. He has more videos on train crashes than I’ve seen, and I’m embarrassed how many I’ve seen. Here’s one to get you started: https://youtu.be/VV2rIHEp5AM?si=sSBT9s49PqbLTGbt
There are a lot of safety lessons embedded in these videos, which is why I like them. I also did a double take when I heard "semaphore"; its history goes back far longer than the ~century of software engineering. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semaphore
Oh you silly duck! Semafor is a common word in a handful of other languages for things like traffic lights and such. I had to do a double take when I first saw it in a programming class.
Also hope you’re doing well it’s been a minute since our paths crossed on gdnet.
"Semaphore" is (old) Greek and means "sign (sema) bearer (phore)", and actually the meaning in railways and computing is more or less the same: in computing, a semaphore signals if a resource is in use; in railways, the resource is a segment of a railway line, and the user is a train.
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The basics of mutual exclusion algorithms were developed for railway timetabling and track signalling.
No cause is known yet, but based on the videos, what’s the most likely reason for crashes? Bad tracks? Some human error resulting in collision?
I don't want to speculate on this crash but my mental model for these things is that there's always a handful of factors that all align and converge to create an accident. Some factors are deep-rooted - and point to decisions made years ago - sometimes related to company culture. Theres always an element of operator error: someone ignored something due to inattention or sleepiness.
What's the befit of speculating at this point? Let the investigators investigate, and hopefully some lessons will be learned.
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In Spanish a traffic light it's called a semaphore too.
In Slavic countries as well. Traffic lights for cars as well as for pedestrians.
The train in question is a Frecciarossa 1000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frecciarossa_1000
The Italians designed it but won't run it at more than 300km/h in Italy citing local infrastructure concerns. I guess that leaves other countries to find the edge cases. I'll be interested to find out how fast it was going during the crash.
AnsaldoBreda did also manufacture the Fyra trains for the short-lived high-speed trains here in The Netherlands. After three trains lost parts in the first month, it was banned from operations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fyra
Looks like a Frecciarossa 1000 derailed in 2020 but it was due to a manufacturer defect in a track switch replaced the night before.
The defect was not caught by the manufacturer or the system operator. It was due to two crossed wires in an assembly.
I know a lot more engineering goes into these trains due to the higher stakes. Japan’s high speed rail hasn’t had a fatal accident in 60 years. I’m wondering what the cause of this will turn out to be.
Japan's shinkansen system has never had a fatal accident, except for one incident in 1995 where someone got killed at a station because he was caught in a door as the train departed the station (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mishima_Station_incident). No one has ever died in a derailing, crash, etc.
Actually the defect was detected by the operators, who installed it that night. They disabled the switch, but apparently this didn't reach the day shift.
Yeah but for this accident both trains were well below 300 km/h at the incident site. Around 210 km/h I think.
Blame game has started. Minister saying the track was renewed in May. Train operator saying the train was inspected 4 days ago.
I'm in Spain currently. Very sad news.
Not to go too off-topic but what was the last word on the internet blackout and also the (unrelated) stolen train cable wire incidents from last year? Were there any satisfying conclusions?
In both you had people saying wait till the thorough investigation finishes, but I don't recall any commotion or bells and whistles around any final reports on those events. Unless I totally missed it of course.
No idea but yeah of course it's a common tactic to squash criticism by being all haughty and saying everyone must wait for official investigations etc. There's middle ground. Especially when proper journalism is basically non existent these days
> Blame game has started.
And the top comment of this tread is doing exactly that. We still have no idea of what happened and the bodies aren't even cold yet, it's disgusting.
As a reference, ~1500-2000 people die every year due to cars in Spain.
I knew this would come up so specifically searched for the comment. And I knew the death rate for cars would be >>>> than trains.
HOWEVER, there is something unique scary about a single incident that kills more people that fit in a typical car. Combined with the fact that you have 0 control over it is much more frightening (for lack of a better word) than car static deaths.
Just my opnion, may not be rational but I'd still rather be behind the wheel?
> fact that you have 0 control over it
I may feel in control inside of my car, but it's up to the rest of the general populace to not T-bone me and kill me on every intersection and roundabout I pass. Every corner is a risk where someone can steer into my lane and cause a frontal collision. Every highway off-ramp, a suicidal driver may try to kill himself against my car. Every truck I pass is a possible burst tyre away from crushing me against the barriers. And that's outside of the car; pedestrians are at the whim of any vehicle.
Most people usually behave on the road, stick to driving legally, don't drink or do drugs behind the wheel, and can manage to stop safely in dangerous situations. However, I feel like many people overestimate how well they could control their car in a dangerous scenario.
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I'll take a trip by train or plane rather than by car every single time.
I feel WAY more safe knowing that the vehicle is operated by trained professionals and there's an extremely robust system around them to ensure safety, rather than whatever semblance of control I think I have driving my car.
> but I'd still rather be behind the wheel
Maybe if it's a trip I do once in a while. But going from Málaga to Madrid and back once a week, in a car, driving? Or Barcelona <> Madrid once a week? No, hard pass, I'd rather be driven by someone else, in a comfy carriage, where I can comfortably sleep or do other things in the meantime.
Me and thousands of others agree, otherwise we wouldn't have one of the most expansive train networks in the world. Spain might be larger than people think, driving to everywhere in the country while fun, isn't feasible for repeated trips, the distances are just too large.
With that said, every once in a while a road trip with a car is really nice, maybe every 1-2 years, and driving across Europe stopping when you see something interesting or driving towards interesting things you see in the distance. Hard to get that same "explorer" feeling with other modes of transportation :)
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Yes, it's the same as with nuclear vs coal. A nuclear disaster is so spectacular that it attracts a lot of attention. Meanwhile, millions of kids suffering from asthma, dying of cancer, etc. don't make the 9pm news because it's harder to connect the dots.
Relative comparison for 2023:
United States: 7.83 deaths/km
Spain: 4.41 deaths/km
Sweden: 2.79 deaths/km
You have to divide that by miles travelled to get a meaningful number - trains will still be a lot safer, but comparing oranges to apples doesn't help the argument
How many cars are on the road in spain compared to how many trains are on the rail network?
I would like to see an apples to apples comparison of deaths per mile travelled on the road and rail networks.
I think the only real metric would be death for X km traveled, correct?
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Taking the commuter train to and from Dublin, sometimes another train on the other direction passes and it's a bit unnerving. I cannot imagine such a collision between two high speed trains :(
I have the same feeling riding the TGV in France. When another train passes in the opposite direction, the pressure in the interior of the cabin even changes. Not sure if it lowers or raises, but I can definitely feel it in my ears.
Look for train collision in Greece (1), the only in a developed country. Extensive research has been done, from a simple switch malfunction to plasma scale temperatures.
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempi_train_crash
The investigation is already pointing on the direction of poor maintenance[1].
[1]: https://euroweeklynews.com/2026/01/19/focus-of-guardia-civil...
As an American with no good rails, I've always been curious: what stops a crazy person from throwing a boulder onto the high speed tracks, or a raccoon getting on it, or other such derailment attempts? Is there high security electric fencing all around the track the whole route or something like that?
Animals become a fine red mist when presented with these sorts of forces. The train feels a bump, but will not crash. I'm unsure at what size a rock will cause issues, but I would expect in most cases they would be kicked away by the train without issue, if a person can move them.
Animals on tracks remain a problem, although they do not pose risk to human life (just damages to the trains). One of the attempts to protect animals include acoustic deterrents, here's a Polish one as an example [1] but they are manufactured around the world. The Polish one plays sounds of predators, dying creatures, hunting dogs, etc to scare away forest animals (search for "UOZ-1" on youtube if you want to hear the sounds). Such devices significantly lower the number of collisions but unfortunately they are not 100% effective.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0j68iepI88
We do have good rails, but they're regional. the NE Corridor is pretty solid overall and METRA and Amtrak in the Chicago area works quite well.
The brand new fastest rail in the country is barely over half the speed of the Shanghai bullet train, so I have to disagree about our rails being "good" even in the best case.
The derailing happened where an old piece of rail from 1989 was soldered to a new rail[1].
[1]: https://www.elmundo.es/economia/2026/01/24/69751757e85ecebc3...
From the aerial imagery it looks like the accident sequence started at the track switch [1]. The RENFE is rested south of it and the Iryo is north. Quite similar to the 1998 Eschede ICE accident which started with a broken wheel rim and finally derailed at a track switch.
I wonder how anybody knows that it was the Iryo train that caused the accident.
[1] https://maps.app.goo.gl/Cek9DgChguXJxVpd6
Local chats are saying that this is retaliation by a drug cartel after a 10-ton shipment of drugs was intercepted - this was reported in the news recently. In general, Spain has a long history of railway attacks carried out for mafia-linked, pseudo-political reasons.
All evidence shows that the railway was broken when the Iryo train reached that point.
So, a maintenance issue because of lack of investment.
Always try to sit in seats where your back is toward the direction of motion.
Train crashes like this are _so_ rare. It's not as safe as flying but AFAICT in rich countries it's the same rough order of magnitude in terms of danger level.
I don't have data but I would imagine crashes on these high speed lines (which always seem to be run at a higher level of professionalism than the general networks) are rarest of all.
I don't think it's a good use of mental energy to plan for a crash like this. You're better off using your brain cycles on hygiene or not losing your luggage.
>It's not as safe as flying
In France and Japan, HSR has had zero fatalities in the entire period of operation.
In China, HSR had AFAIR one fatal crash, with 40 fatalities. Per passenger-mile, Chinese HSR is twice as safe as US air travel.
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> I don't have data
Most railway deaths in the EU are due to unauthorized people on the tracks or due to crossings. The actual number of passengers deaths has been really low in the past years.
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...
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> It's not as safe as flying
In the EU it's safer than flying, with 0.5 deaths per 100 billion km/ passenger vs 3 deaths per 100 billion kms/ passenger. However, since an airplane flies at, let's say, six times the average speed of a train, the actual probability of dying during a 1-hour trip is almost 40 times more on a plane than on a train.
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Brain cycles aren’t a limited supply. Besides, you’ll get to feel a nice jolt of serotonin when you remember to sit backwards.
> I would imagine crashes on these high speed lines (which always seem to be run at a higher level of professionalism than the general networks) are rarest of all
If this crash is anything like the other ones, you might be surprised. Safety complacency tends to cause maintenance failures. Plus the low speed lines are less deadly since the total energy is proportional to velocity squared, and v is low.
In other words, it might be more helpful to look at it as "if they’re run at a higher level of standards, it’s because they have to be".
Statistically you’re probably right, but considering how many brain cycles we waste on non-essentials, it’s just as fun to waste them on this. That way you can start a nerdy conversation with your travel companions, and they can learn to travel without you next time.
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This is so rare that it's not really worth thinking about, as a passenger (of course, it should be on the _operators_ minds). You're far more likely to die getting to the station.
I feel like airplanes should be designed this way. Outside of takeoff and landing it would be pretty hard to even notice the difference, once you're seated.
At least BEA airliners used to have quite a few backward facing seats, up to half the plane.
However, there were a number of problems - people didn't like sitting in them, people didn't like hearing that their seat wasn't as safe as the others, you can't get as many rows in unless you turn them all backwards, and the structure needs to be designed differently so then you need more spares.
C5 Galaxy (US military jumbo cargo plane) has a passenger compartment with rear facing seats.
Huh. I'd never thought of this. If that is actually meaningfully beneficial, I wonder if they'd design self driving cars with the seats facing backwards, given there's no longer a necessity to look at the road.
(edit: I guess it's more of no-brainer on a train/bus where you don't have a seat belt)
Not the author, but I think there was some research and it's indeed better for you if you have head support, to be facing back towards the front. If prevents a whole range of injuries, from your neck, to becoming a projectile yourself.
But it's really theoretical, and does not account for the passenger in front of you headed head-first into your throat.
PS: I laughed hard that xlbuttplug2 is answering to deadbabe. The internet lives!
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Sitting backwards is beneficial if looking at accidents.
But sitting backwards is very very uncomfortable if there is any kind of uneven acceleration, bumps, swaying, rolling, curvy tracks or whatever. Humans need to look forward at the horizon to get their visual stimuli aligned with their motion/balance sense in the inner ear. If that alignment isn't there, you will get seasick. Backwards makes this even worse.
Babies don't suffer from this, because closing your eyes helps, and infants don't have as strong a reaction to motions anyways, due to them usually being carried by their parents until walking age. So reverse baby seats only work for babies.
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Infant car seats face backwards, they recommend backwards facing for a long as possible (until the kid is too big to fit comfortably in a backwards facing position).
Disclaimer I work for Zoox, but here is us crash testing https://youtu.be/597C9OwV0o4
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It's incredibly beneficial. However many people dislike it and want to be facing the direction they are moving in, so best case is probably a train-style 4-seater. Which 2 seats facing forward and 2 backwards.
I mean if there is actually conclusive evidence that this is safer how is it not criminal to not have all trains adhere to this? The only thing I can think of is motion sickness for some sizable minority of passengers, but even then I would expect them to know the rough percentage of passengers that would discomforted enough to not get on the train.
Or sit in the back of the train rather than the front
Middle.
It was the rear carriage which derailed
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Updated to 39 people now, but probably the number can still go up
After the TV videos, it seems that a chunk of 80cm or one meter of the railway was missing, or broke by the train passing.
Just to add context:
In 2025 August, the Spanish government blocked the attempt from Ganz MaVag Europe to buy Talgo, the main Spanish train maker. Ganz Magyar Vagon is an Hungarian company linked with Oil oligarchs close to the Victor Orban government. The government alleged National Security reasons when the National Intelligence Center started to suspect that the operation was really funded by a Russian Company, lending money to the Hungarians, via Corvinus International Investment Ltd.
https://www.ft.com/content/e3074c51-7de1-4ed4-aafd-e3c20d9be...
So it seems that Moscow could be trying to gain access to the Spanish train technology for some reason.
Also, this crash happened in Andalucia. On 8 January 2026 the high velocity trains in Andalucia were delayed some hours by somebody stealing small amounts of copper cable from several vital parts of the system. It was ruled as common thievery, and it was not the first time. Similar events on may 2025:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm24l14l4zmo
Stealing copper from the Spanish railway is like an Olympic sport lately. It seems strangely common on the previous hours to a big holiday, election or major event.
The problem is causing serious economic damage and lots of troubles to the users of the Spanish Commuter rail system "Cercanias" and now escalated also to the high speed railway. The troubles with Cercanias can be often attributed to poor maintenance, but sometimes include also somebody placing rocks and trunks directly on the railway with the mere purpose to create chaos.
EU is on an hybrid war with Russia, and that there are many documented boycotts against relevant European infrastructure, like the regular cut of submarine cables. At this moment is to soon to discard anything.
Terrible and condolences to anybody affected.
For a bit of context according to the OECD 2023 Spain had ~1800 on the road during the previous year, so that's about 5/day. There are more deaths on the road in Spain in a couple of weeks than this tragic accident. Either way it's too many deaths obviously but I want to highlight what a freak event this is compared to a more popular mode of transportation.
Edit : Motivation behind that clarification https://ourworldindata.org/does-the-news-reflect-what-we-die... read some months ago but that stuck with me.
Yes. The Frecciarossa 1000 (ETR 1000) is an EMU, and the trainset’s coaches/cars are equipped with braking equipment as part of the integrated braking system—so it’s not “only the power cars” doing the braking.
So my first gut instinct is that one wagons breaks malfunctioned and suddenly applied breaking power since it was the last two wagons that went off.
That’s how every train works since this system was made mandatory in the US in 1893(!). Asymmetric breaking does not cause cars to come off. The joint is stronger than the breaking force. Anyway, we know it was a portion of the track that had a weld fracture.
A third train in the Cercanias railway has crashed today and derailed after finding rocks laid in the railway and losing a wheel Axle on a rock.
And of course, as in the last thousand times, it was on a very particular northern part of Spain that has lots and lots of similar sabotages in the last years. No victims this time.
One time is maybe accident, two times in two days... nope. We are obviously under attack. All high speed trains in Spain were ordered to reduce the speed to a half temporarily. If seems that somebody really, really, don't wants the Spanish president going to the Davos Forum.
A new accident today in Catalonia, three train crashes in three days of the Davos Forum with four trains involved.
The fourth train crashed against obstacles in the railway. One machinist killed and all commuter trains in the region halted until the railway is reviewed. High-speed velocity has been restored to normal values. Machinists went on strike and the narrative of poor maintenance is all around the place on internet.
The chance of this happening just by random is zero. We didn't have a train crash in Spain in years and now we have three at the same time.
It looks like 40 cm of track was cut away from the tracks. It looks like sabotage or terrorism.
And voila, three more incidents in just the following three days. Even the opposition party is now making very cautious statements.
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How would a cyberattack cause a train to derail on a straight stretch of track?
From a derailed train on a straight stretch of track... no. Very likely maintenance related somehow.
Spanish article from LaVanguardia states that the train was rather new and the track recently maintained.
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Please don't post like this on HN. This kind of comment is a generic tangent (and a rather ghoulish one), that can be made about any tragedy; yes, no matter how bad something is, there's always something worse. It's the fact that this is an unusual occurrence that makes it noteworthy. The guidelines ask us to converse curiously and avoid generic tangents and shallow dismissals. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
FWIW: a single car crash killing 21 people would still be newsworthy in America. And I think if you math it out with something per capita equivalent, this would actually be an exceptionally bad day/incident for the US.
But of course you're not wrong, trains are vastly safer than private cars. If anyone uses this as evidence against having a proper rail system, they're ignorant.
But - until someone does that, there's no reason to make this about the US or cars vs. trains. It's borderline offensive to reflexively politicize this before anyone else had; it almost feels like you're intentionally trying to sow conflict, here.
~107 people die per day from car accidents in the USA [0].
0. Per 2024 stats from the NHTSA (https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/nhtsa-estimates-39345-t...)
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https://international-railway-safety-council.com/safety-stat...
In Europe, trains are 28 times safer than cars (fatalities per passenger-km).
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The discourse here is more of a criticism of Puentes, who is a very controversial minister overseeing this.
Unusual for a train though.
We already know Americans can't drive but with trains like... how do you mess up a straight line?
> how do you mess up a straight line?
One thing I learned working on a system that did train positioning for the 7 Line subway in NYC is that train systems are a lot more complicated than just straight lines. They are complicated networks with custom signaling and the trains don't necessarily travel on the usual side in the usual direction at all times.
That said, in this particular case it basically was just two straight lines side by side and one of the trains derailed and travelled into the path of the other track.
Trains don't often derail on straight sections, likely either someone fucked up really bad on rail maintenance or someone sabotaged the rail.
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> For the last decade, an average of 1,300 trains derailed each year (in the US), accounting for 61% of all train accidents.
https://usafacts.org/articles/are-train-derailments-becoming...
> In 2024, there were 1,507 significant railway accidents in the EU, with a total of 750 people killed and 548 seriously injured.
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derailment
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...when they come off the tracks.
a high-speed train travelling from Malaga to Madrid derailed and crossed over onto another track
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Every government in Spain for the last decade or more has been cutting corners in maintaining the rail networks: high speed (where this accident happened), the conventional network and commuter rail. You failed to mention the fact our budget has been extended since 2023, that the actual track where this happened was given maintenance under a year ago (per the minister, [^1]) and the train that first derailed (Iryo's ETR1000) was last checked 4 days ago.
Regarding the former Minister (Ábalos), he's awaiting trial and not yet convicted (even though, IMHO he is probably guilty), and he hasn't been in the ministry since 2021[^2] so it makes no sense to bring it up when he has been out for nearly 4.5 years now.
[^1]: https://www.lavozdegalicia.es/noticia/espana/2026/01/18/osca... [^2]: https://www.elconfidencialdigital.com/articulo/otros/jose-lu...
According to current minister, the issues come from others before him, so it indeed makes sense to bring that up.
Blaming others for the current underinvestment of the railway network is disingenuous.
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> The current government has been found to be cutting corners
Where do the articles mention that the current government has been cutting corners? In fact, they have increased the current investment plan on the Cercanías commuter railway network to more than 7,000 million euro, from 5.000 million that the previous government planned[1].
Now, this isn't to that the current political landscape is fine because ( as portrayed by the last articles ) is totally unacceptable, and of course that affects the rail network negatively.
[1]: https://maldita.es/malditateexplica/20231212/cercanias-madri...
Quick reminder that more spending does not equal better spending.
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I think you are just stirring the pot and cherry picking news.
"Cercanias" is a different rail network to the one where the accident happened (high-speed). Also the political issue that you are mentioning happened 5 years ago on a single individual not directly affiliated to the organization that manages the rail network. Please let's be serious and bring constructive things to the conversation
What does the "Cercanías" conmuter network in Madrid have to do with the high-speed AVE network where the accident took place? They are two different networks, and even if the first one isn't well maintained as you claim, it doesn't mean the other one has to be in the same situation.
Also, it's been four and a half years since the former Transport Minister who is in jail left the office (july 2021).
I can tell that you really don't like the current government but you should relax a little.
There is an accident with death people, maybe people still trapped there and the causes are still unknown. Too early to start playing politics, don't you think?
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Anyone serious about rail engineering or safety isn't excitedly dashing off comments pointing fingers before the dust has even settled. Those who are doing that - such as the comment I am replying to - should be ignored
From [2] (machine-translated):
> The accident occurred near Atocha station, on a curve where signage indicates a speed limit of 45 kilometers per hour. However, sources consulted by this newspaper assert that the train, out of control, easily approached speeds of 90 to 100 kilometers per hour, ultimately resulting in the derailment. [...] Two mechanics who were inside the wrecked train escaped injury.
Any indication they deliberately derailed the train?
Edit: yes! E.g.
https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2024/10/22/railway-w...
(Non-specific?)
https://euroweeklynews.com/2024/10/26/investigation-reveals-...
(Says the train was diverted away from others, rather than deliberately derailed maybe)
>Indeed last year some machinists had to derail a train to stop it from crashing other[2].
They were pulling it uphill with another unit, and the coupler broke so it rolled backwards and flipped at the curve.
Im what context it is normal to derail a train to avoid a crash with another one?
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Let's not speculate. I'm the first to be skeptical of government but this just makes people skeptical of your words.
This is the problem. I'm skeptical of all our sides of government, they haven't done a lot for us to trust them, and keep chucking our trust into the bin.
But that doesn't mean we should resolve into skipping nuance, not understanding situations and critically evaluate what everyone is claiming. Mixing together two networks in order to score some cheap internet points, when the point doesn't even hold up to the most basic scrutiny, does the opposite of helping the case of proving how shit the government is.
information war.
Is information war telling that the railway transport authority was aware of issues in the accident location for years?[1]
[1]: https://www.elespanol.com/reportajes/20260119/adif-notifico-...
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I know nothing about Spanish politics or the railway network there, but jumping on blaming the government before even the beginning of the investigation, when we don't have a clue about the causes of the accident and when the emergency service haven't even finished recovering the victims body yet, is a revulsing attempt at political recuperation.
What is tragic is that the high tech approach here ("super-fast trains") does not put security at the forefront. This should have been the number #1 criterium from the get go, already during the planning stage. The usual reason this is not done is because of cutting down on costs, but just simple things such as: how can it be possible that another train comes by at the same time and crashes? This would not have prevented the one train going off, but you have to wonder how that is even possible design-wise to catch two trains. And even trains going off, should not be possible - this can most assuredly be detected as it happens, so what counter-measures are available to minimize damage and maximize safety?