Comment by dgxyz

Writing software that works containerized isn't that bad. A lot of the time, ensuring cross platform support for Linux is enough. And docker is pretty easy to use. Images can be spun up easily, and the orchestration of compose is simple but quite powerful. I'd argue that in some cases, it can speed up development by offering a standardized environment that can be brought up with a few commands.

Kubernetes, on the other hand, seems to bog everything down. It's quite capable and works well once it's going, but getting there is an endeavor, and any problem is buried under mountains of templatized YAML.

Thanks. You’ve reassured me that I’m not going mad when I look at our project repo and seriously consider binning the Dockerfile and deploying direct to Ubuntu.

The project is a Ruby on Rails app that talks to PostreSQL and a handful of third party services. It just seems unnecessary to include the complexity of containers.

I have a lot of years of actual experience. Maybe not as much as you, but a good 12 years in the industry (including 3 at Google, and Google doesn't use Docker, it probably wouldn't be effective enough) and a lot more as a hobbyist.

I just don't agree. I don't find Docker too complicated to get started with at all. A lot of my projects have very simple Dockerfiles. For example, here is a Dockerfile I have for a project that has a Node.JS frontend and a Go backend:

    FROM node:alpine AS npmbuild
    WORKDIR /app
    COPY package.json package-lock.json .
    RUN npm ci
    COPY . .
    RUN npm run build

    FROM golang:1.25-alpine AS gobuilder
    WORKDIR /app
    COPY go.mod go.sum .
    RUN go mod download
    COPY . .
    COPY --from=npmbuild /app/dist /app/dist
    RUN go build -o /server ./cmd/server
    
    FROM scratch
    COPY --from=gobuilder /server /server
    ENTRYPOINT ["/server"]

It is a glorified shell script that produces an OCI image with just a single binary. There's a bit of boilerplate but it's nothing out of the ordinary in my opinion. It gives you something you can push to an OCI registry and deploy basically anywhere that can run Docker or Podman, whether it's a Kubernetes cluster in GCP, a bare metal machine with systemd and podman, a NAS running Synology DSM or TrueNAS or similar, or even a Raspberry Pi if you build for aarch64. All of the configuration can be passed via environment variables or if you want, additional command line arguments, since starting a container very much is just like starting a process (because it is.)

But of course, for development you want to be able to iterate rapidly, and don't want to be dealing with a bunch of Docker build BS for that. I agree with this. However, the utility of Docker doesn't really stop at building for production either. Thanks to the utility of OCI images, it's also pretty good for setting up dev environment boilerplate. Here's a docker-compose file for the same project:

    services:
      ui:
        image: node:alpine
        ports: ["5173:5173"]
        working_dir: /app
        volumes: [".:/app:ro", "node_modules:/app/node_modules"]
        command: ["/bin/sh", "-c", "npm ci && npx vite --host 0.0.0.0 --port 5173"]
      server:
        image: cosmtrek/air:v1.60.0
        ports: ["8080:8080"]
        working_dir: /app
        volumes: [".:/app:ro"]
        depends_on: ["postgres"]
      postgres:
        image: postgres:16-alpine
        ports: ["5432:5432"]
        volumes: ["postgres_data:/var/lib/postgresql/data"]
    volumes:
      node_modules:
      postgres_data:

And if your application is built from the ground up to handle these environments well, which doesn't take a whole lot (basically, just needs to be able to handle configuration from the environment, and to make things a little neater it can have defaults that work well for development), this provides a one-command, auto-reloading development environment whose only dependency is having Docker or Podman installed. `docker compose up` gives you a full local development environment.

I'm omitting a bit of more advanced topics but these are lightly modified real Docker manifests mainly just reformatted to fewer lines for HN.

I adopted Kubernetes pretty early on. I felt like it was a much better abstraction to use for scheduling compute resources than cloud VMs, and it was how I introduced infrastructure-as-code to one of the first places I ever worked.

I'm less than thrilled about how complex Kubernetes can be, once you start digging into stuff like Helm and ArgoCD and even more, but in general it's an incredible asset that can take a lot of grunt work out of deployment while providing quite a bit of utility on top.