Comment by cocomath
3 days ago
Someone captured the beginning of the shooting victim’s interaction with ICE. It certainly doesn’t look as though the person is aggressive or brandishing a weapon.
The DHS public statement that the victim was going to “do maximize damage and massacre law enforcement” is outrageous…
ICE has regularly attacked protesters and bystanders who are simply recording, walking away and so on.
Even people just driving through their neighborhood have been dragged out of their vehicles and apprehended. Citizen or otherwise doesn’t seem to matter.
They aren’t professionals and operate with neither the training, nor the will to obey the law.
Much of the time they seem to believe trying to bait folks into an encounter
https://www.reddit.com/r/ICE_Raids/comments/1q7u4kz/ice_agen...
https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/1q7y43s/cbp_poin...
In my area all the non white folks don’t come to the bus stop anymore to pickup their kids. Their kids are instructed to race home after school. The schools now have lockdown protocols for ICE. Family businesses opened for decades closed because employees are afraid to come to work.
> They aren’t professionals and operate with neither the training, nor the will to obey the law.
Many of them are experienced and trained. The man who shot Renee Good served in Iraq, worked for Border Patrol for two decades and was literally a firearms instructor[1].
This is just what cops, reactionaries and psychopaths will do when they know that they have carte blanche to do anything they want, including murder.
No amount of "training" will fix this. It isn't an accident, it isn't incompetence, it is deliberate and wanton.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Ren%C3%A9e_Good#Jon...
Yes. Stepping in front of cars to give reason to shoot occupants was a repeated pattern in the Border Patrol, while against standard practice for most law enforcement.
So assuming it's random lack of training when he does it again seem far too charitable.
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> Much of the time they seem to be trying to bait folks into an encounter
Those are kids playing to be cops. If the PS5 was affordable to people with such a low level of education they'd be playing CoD at home.
It is so strange seeing local cops deal with crowds vs ICE. ICE is just looks like a mob milling about. Some taking time to argue with protesters, others wandering alone aimlessly.
Local cops dealing with protesters are organized, rarely trying to bait anyone into anything.
I sure hope they're not pretending to be police considering they kill about ~1,200 people/year in the US (compared to about two in the UK).
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>>The schools now have lockdown protocols for ICE<<
if the day ever came for ICE to breach a locked down school, and extract minors, that could be a tipping point.
They've already breached churches and hospitals to extract people. And they've already arrested 5-year-old minors. Its only a matter of time before they move to schools.
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They raided a preschool in Chicago and kidnapped a preschooler in Minneapolis
> ICE has regularly attacked protesters and bystanders who are simply recording, walking away and so on.
> Even people just driving through their neighborhood have been dragged out of their vehicles and apprehended. Citizen or otherwise doesn’t seem to matter.
I have seen many claims of this sort, but every single time there's been video available of the incident, it's become clear to me that nothing of the sort is going on. The people "being dragged out of vehicles" have been refusing lawful orders and then being arrested for it. The people "simply recording" are physically interfering with ICE going where they need to go to do what they're there to do. "Walking away" doesn't remotely describe anything I've seen.
As for the race issue, the ICE officers I've seen have been considerably more racially diverse than the protesters.
But no, being a citizen does not, in fact, matter if you are breaking federal law in the presence of a federal agent, and that law includes obstruction of federal justice. All of this is extremely clear in law. Please have a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NosECXHMGFU.
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This comment, like many others I've made on the topic, has been completely illegitimately flagged. I'm getting rather tired of that. There's nothing objectionable or counter to guidelines in the above, and all of it reflects my true thoughts based on my actual experience of the discourse, the evidence available to me, the legal code I've researched, etc.
It perhaps just doesn't agree with your point of view.
You're being flagged for good reason, you're not a victim here.
You refuse to watch the videos, but you're still defending the regime. Why?
I question the moral integrity of anyone who would defend this administration without all the available info.
I'm glad you're being flagged, because I've been disappointed with how folks here have been surprisingly flaccid when it comes to condemning this regime. The day that I come here and find posts like yours in the majority will be the last day I visit.
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Today:
https://np.reddit.com/r/Minneapolis/comments/1qlvpgy/better_...
ICE shot a woman 5 times while she was alone in her car. Body cam confirmed she did not resist, federal investigation failed to produce charges.
But yeah, it's just not happening, you couldn't possibly just be unaware
Edit: you literally said "i will not watch the videos" - you are admittedly willfully ignorant on the subject, your posts are therefore irrelevant
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> The people "being dragged out of vehicles" have been refusing lawful orders and then being arrested for it.
"Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that 'an unjust law is no law at all.'" — Martin Luther King Jr.
> But no, being a citizen does not, in fact, matter if you are breaking federal law in the presence of a federal agent, and that law includes obstruction of federal justice.
“The only obligation which I have a right to assume is to do at any time what I think right.” — Henry David Thoreau
> All of this is extremely clear in law.
“Law never made men a whit more just; and, by means of their respect for it, even the well-disposed are daily made the agents of injustice.” — Henry David Thoreau
Amongst other stuff you just said.. not everything a law enforcement officer says is a lawful order by definition. If they are running around harassing, assaulting and arresting people with a due cause that’s still illegal.
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> I have seen many claims of this sort, but every single time there's been video available of the incident, it's become clear to me that nothing of the sort is going on.
Have you considered the potential bias that people are dragged out of their cars before they can start recording video? Perhaps the dragging out of the car happens while nobody is recording them, then people see and start recording for posterity. That seems an obvious assumption. Do you have reason to think otherwise such that you can dismiss others' reports with intellectual honesty rather than motivated reasoning?
> This comment, like many others I've made on the topic, has been completely illegitimately flagged. I'm getting rather tired of that.
> It perhaps just doesn't agree with your point of view.
I don't really agree with the flags but this casual dismissal of "you just don't like it" is not helping you to understand the actual reasons others may have to flag (and downvote, which I do agree with). For example, maybe others watched the videos and think there is no way to justify what they saw. To such an individual, seeing someone try to justify it might look like trolling regardless of said someone's self-perception of their commentary. You will get nowhere merely complaining about the flags and downvotes; they will keep coming (on this topic) until you start to comment more thoughtfully (on this topic), or not at all.
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You're being downvoted because you're being wilfully obtuse, not because you're a bootlicker.
Tell me what legal rationale ICE had to detain and kidnap a 5 year old US citizen.
Tell me the legal rationale for ICE abducting an employee from a Target beating him up and dropping him off bruised and covered in blood at Walmart at miles away.
ICE has been turned into a paramilitary political mafia to harass and harm the administrations political opponents and racial outgroups.
They've repeatedly been found in federal court to have violated the constitutional rights of citizens and non-citizens alike but Congress has shown no spine to reign in the executive which has willfully spurned these rulings.
Turn the blind eye to this at your own peril. History has shown that fascism does not stop acting only against people that you disagree with
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Pam Bondi's Department of Justice will be worse. They're the ones who are in charge of investigating this. I expect the FBI under her to support ICE and defend them with all their might.
The checks and balances at the federal level are all captured. Support Minnesota in this troubling time.
No one will be held to account as long as Trump or his collaborators are in power.
If anyone views the current situation as a problem, there is no viable solution that doesn’t involve removing MAGA from power.
The very first thing Trump administration did after assuming office was fire almost all the Inspectors General. Seems obvious, foreboding and foreshadowing, it was to sweep away any independent oversight and accountability.
Oh boy the hand waving away at the time. Now the other shoe is dropping.
Yeah but you shoulda seen the look on his face after the government killed him and edited the image!