Comment by rlt

13 days ago

If it misfired it likely misfired as it was being taken, not while in his holster.

If you’re detaining someone who has a gun and a gun goes off it’s incompetent, maybe negligent, but not murder to react by shooting the guy who had the gun.

I don’t think anyone can draw definitive conclusions from the videos.

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rlt

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AngryData  13 days ago

How is that not murder? In your scenario the guy is still innocent and he was shot to death because of ICE being scared by their own incompetence. If someone claps their hands and I reflexively mag dump you on the street, am I not guilty of murder?

  • rlt  12 days ago

    Obviously because murder requires intent. It might be negligent homicide though.

    There’s a big difference between someone randomly clapping their hands and an agent seeing/hearing that a detainee has a firearm, then hearing the firearm discharge as they’re struggling to restrain him.

  • nailer  12 days ago

    > If someone claps their hands and I reflexively mag dump you on the street, am I not guilty of murder?

    Comparing hearing a clap to a GUNSHOT is wild.

    Ninety nine percent of people including you and everyone on HN would, if involved in a scuffle with an aggressive armed man would respond to a sudden gun shot by shooting the armed guy.

cthalupa  13 days ago

The person who starts shooting him has full visibility of the gun the entire time.

Even if he doesn't realize it is a misfire, why would he believe that it was Pretti who shot? How can you reasonably believe a dude that is dogpiled with a gun not in his control is the shooter?

  • nailer  12 days ago

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46770328

    • cthalupa  11 days ago

      None of this combats anything in my statement.

      Again, the officer that begins the shooting can literally see Pretti is disarmed. He has no gun. He watches the other agent take his gun off of him.

      A more reasonable take in that situation would be thinking that some other protestor has decided to start shooting at them, not that the guy dogpiled by a half dozen agents and visibly fuckin' disarmed is the one doing it.

      I am not a gun control person. I think we'll never realistically get guns away from criminals, and as long as that's the case, law-abiding citizens should be allowed to have firearms to be on even footing. Full stop.

      But if we can't hold out law enforcement agencies, however nominal in nature they are, to high enough standards that they don't create the entire situation that causes them to kill someone who was never a threat to them, then they shouldn't be armed. Because we can't trust them not to slaughter US citizens.

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