Comment by roughly

25 days ago

You know, it's funny - there's a couple places where this kind of thing seems to have come up. There's research around crop nutrition levels that shows decreases in nutrient levels as yield per acre goes up, there's research on supplements and vitamins that shows synergistic effects between seemingly unrelated substances, we've seen surprising effects from adding or removing species from an ecosystem. One begins to suspect that the "reductive" method of science - the sort of physics- or mathematics-type "reduce the variables of the problem until we can isolate effects" approach - isn't particularly well-suited to dealing with biological systems. You see it in bioinformatics as well - we've sequenced the genomes for many organisms, and have learned a lot from doing so, but we're also learning the limits of that approach pretty strongly - the organism isn't defined just by its 'code', but its environment; the presence, distribution, and concentration of various chemicals; etc. I suspect as we move more towards the "biological" century here we're going to have to readjust how we approach things to start trying to find those synergistic effects earlier in the process, rather than pull everything down to its constituent parts and then experimenting pairwise with various combos. I get the difficulties in doing that, but I feel like we've repeatedly found the stuff we've discarded as irrelevant to the problem ("things that are not in the visual wavelength the eye perceives") in fact do wind up being relevant (wider full-spectrum light has effects outside the mere spatial perception of objects).

You are basically hitting on what has been referred to as high modernism, which promotes a level of confidence in science and technology that can only be maintained by eschewing all the inherent complexity of the world. The scientific method can really only study systems by modifying a handful of variables at a time and keeping the rest fixed, and isn't really capable of handling hundreds of interacting variables. Rather than acknowledge this limitation, high modernism embraces simplification even to the detriment of its products.

Further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeing_Like_a_State

  • > The scientific method can really only study systems by modifying a handful of variables at a time and keeping the rest fixed

    Not true. Statistical measures of large systems are a routine thing in the natural sciences. However that's higher effort and tends to make it more difficult to communicate the results to others so it's avoided whenever possible.

    Also high dimensional models carry a distinct risk of overfitting.

Could it be the pendulum swinging hard before selling in the middle?

Once we learn from our mistakes we can find the frequencies that do yield the best outcome and at the same time consume (say) ¼ the energy of an incandescent bulb.

Or the minimum set of species yielding optimal outcomes, without the answer being "all of them"

Sounds like a holistics approach will be the next big swing of scientific endeavor.

That was the original point to begin with, right? Learn what makes things tick and then build on that. We've got enough of it down to the atomic level that maybe we should zoom back to the supermolecular.