Comment by joe_mamba
1 day ago
>This looks like it will help a lot of students and families who are on a budget. If you can just plug your phone into a screen you do not need to buy a separate laptop anymore.
Except that android phones with display output are mostly flagships with flagship prices.
But 50 Euros on the used market got me a retired corporate HP/Dell laptop with 1080p screen, intel 8th gen i5 quad core, 8GB RAM and 256GB NVME on which I put Linux. Way better for studying and productivity than my android phone hooked up to the TV.
It's a nice feature to have as a backup in case my laptop dies, but I wouldn't daily drive an android phone as a desktop computer for productivity.
Actually many ridiculously expensive "flagship" smartphones do not have DisplayPort and some do not have even USB 3.
The chances to find DisplayPort in what nowadays have become medium-price smartphones, i.e. $500 to $600, are about as good as finding DisplayPort in a "flagship".
Which flagships (other than Apple), don't ship with display output?
AFAIK Samsung, Google and all major Chinese brands have display output on their flagships.
Resell the 8GB of RAM and buy an even better phone then? That's 150 euros of value right there.
Then use the money on a reputable second hand store to buy a used S20 5G 128GB for 150 euros, or a S22 128GB for 145, maybe an S21 Ultra 5G 256GB for 139, and you've got yourself a valiant workstation already (Samsung DeX works great out of the box, no need to wait for Google here). I can also find an S20+ 5G 128GB for 75 euros with display damage (but that doesn't matter when you hook it up to a monitor).
On another website I can find an S20+ 5G with cracks in the edges of the touch screen for 50 euros. That's 12GiB of RAM, 128GiB of storage, a 3200x1440p@120Hz screen and 5G connectivity built in. You're gonna need a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard (that's like what, 5 euros?) to hook it up to the TV but then you're good.
Where is the $150 euros coming from? 8GB of brand new DDR3 or DDR4 is available for $20-$30 from Amazon / Fleabay, and once he sells it the laptop will no longer work.
That's the standard price for 8GB DDR4 RAM in the local major web shop. I'm sure there are cheaper options out there, but people are willing to pay more than that to get a shipping date before October.
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Phones also have ram
That's a nicely thought out setup, but why would other people want to do that hassle, instead of just getting a cheap laptop, which is what most people do?
You're making up niche scenarios for the sake of winning an argument, but you don't daily drive, you don't dog-food yourself, they're only good as concepts on paper, but not in practice.
The market for people buying obsolete phones to connect to their TV as their daily driver workhorse computers is insanely small, even on quirky HN let alone outside this bubble. So who do you think you are convincing/converting with this?
Like the most popular Androids are Samsungs and Samsung has been shipping DEX on their flagships since for-ever, and how many of their users actually use it? Or how many buy them just for that feature alone? You haven't discovered an untapped market here that will replace PC/laptops for most average people.
Why buy a used phone that will stop receiving updates, can't be fixed or upgraded and can't run whatever you want on it when you can use a real computer instead?
The chances of the 50 euro laptop getting Windows 10 updates longer than a second hand Samsung phone are slim.
As for "can't be fixed or upgraded", ask any macOS user.
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Old computers also stop getting microcode updates fairly quickly.
Why though? You can do so much more with a laptop than be trapped in Google's walled garden.
It heavily depends on where you live, but plenty of poorer areas that never had much desktop computer penetration because of affordability are going app-first. Richer countries are going app-first for things like banking and government ID too, because the security situation with locked-down phones is a lot better than on the desktop where FreeFortniteRobloxUpdate.exe can drain your savings without you ever noticing it.
You're going to need a phone anyway. Might as well save some money by not having to get a laptop for doing your taxes once a year.
Most normal people don't really care about Google's walled garden. That's a tech person thing. I wouldn't do it, but none of the people who don't have a favourite Linux distro care about any of this.
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The moto g100 is a good example of a midrange phone with decent specs, including video output. It launched at $400, and can be bought for around $200 these days.
It has a Snapdragon 870, 8gb RAM, 128gb storage, a microSD slot, headphones jack, and a big enough battery to last 2 days. It's a little chunky, and it's not waterproof, but beyond that it's just about everything I ever wanted in a phone.
Motorola, of course, has already abandoned it. But it still gets up-to-date Android via Lineage OS and other community made ROMs.
How did they abandon it? It release october last year according to google.
>but beyond that it's just about everything I ever wanted in a phone.
I get that, but none of this answers my question of why people should use that to a TV, instead of a PC, other than to flex? It really isn't more practical, nor saving you money and you're still limited to the apps of android ecosystem rather than the windows/linux one.
> How did they abandon it? It release october last year according to google.
Oh, geez, I didn't realize they abandoned it so hard they even recycled the name! I was referring to the 2021 g100: https://m.gsmarena.com/motorola_moto_g100-10791.php - it looks like the 2025 recycle lacks video output :/ https://m.gsmarena.com/motorola_moto_g100_5g_(china)-14228.p...
As for why anyone should do it, I'm not really arguing that anyone should. I was just trying to point out that it's more affordable than you might think. (Although it can't beat the deal you got on your laptop.)
I think it might make sense if you already have a laptop dock with a screen and a keyboard at home and at school/work, and your needs were fairly lightweight, and you really valued portability. Or as you suggested, it could just serve as a backup device in case your main laptop gets broken or whatever.
Who has the time?
I just want to get a new phone and be on my way. The last thing I want to do is download a community OS and/or roms on Day 1
Yeah, fair enough. I actually really like the recent trend of Android manufacturers committing to 7 years of software updates, because yeah, community ROMs really aren't for everyone.
My point was more that there are affordable options if you're inclined to do a bit of tinkering.
A 2-3 generation old pixel on the second hand marker is not expensive at all though.
And you easily add a mouse/keyboard just fine to it.
>A 2-3 generation old pixel on the second hand marker is not expensive at all though.
Sure but at around 300 bucks is still way over 50 bucks.
And even if you get a used Pixel 8, having separate phone and computer adds a priceless layer of redundancy and flexibility.
If someone steals my phone, I don't want to also loose my work PC with it.
You are also buying a soon to be unmaintained device which will fall out of security support.
That $50 PC can run linux with the latest kernel for the next 20 years (maybe longer).
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I'm right there with relating to this mindset, however, I recently (in the past 2 weeks) got to experience restoring a new phone from backup without the old one present, and it's becoming essentially a non-issue. I can't think of a single thing that wasn't restored from cloud backup.
"work pc" -- random 50 dollar fire hazard running Linux. Anyway, those Android phones though they are obviously going to be the unreliable part in this story.
Isn't Pixel 10 the first one with fully supported desktop mode?
I remember I was very confused when buying a Pixel 7 to replace my (then 3 year old) Huawei P30 Pro, and the inferior camera + lack of desktop mode made it feel like a net downgrade.
I use it on my Pixel 8 Pro too It's a toggle in Developer options, Local Desktop.
According to Google's help site, no Pixel has a desktop mode (like you can find at Motorola, Samsung and others).
The latest Pixel models have DisplayPort, but their operating system only provides screen mirroring or app window mirroring on an external monitor. Unlike Pixel, the phones with a true desktop mode can display multiple windows on the monitor, and presumably they can have a selectable resolution for the monitor. I assume that for screen mirroring the monitor is used at the same resolution as the phone screen, i.e. either 1080 lines or only slightly more.
Moreover, while the help site states that DisplayPort exists in Pixel 8 and newer, Google does not bother to advertise the existence of this feature in its online shop, where there is no mention about this in the phone specifications.
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8 and up support secondary displays
Only pixel 8 and up have DP. So 2 generations old. I guess soon it will be 3rd gen.
Old pixels don't have HDMI output, I learned it the hard way when the screen of my Pixel 3a died.
Note that such capabilities were added to the 8 after it launched. When they launched it they did not even mention that it contains displayport alt mode.
I'm ignorant on this topic, can you not just plug a USB dock with HDMI out in any android phone and get a display out? I do it all the time on the previous three pixel phones I've had, but I didn't know that this was limited to those?
USB-C is only a connector/socket - a device having a USB-C socket does not guarantee much beyond being able to plug a USB-C connector into it.
Some USB-C devices only use the port for charging for example. Others might only support USB 2.0.
Getting a display out from something with USB-C socket needs the device to support something called DP Alt Mode.
Note that cables matter too - you can have a DP alt mode enabled monitor and phone, but if you have the wrong cable it won’t work. Welcome to the future.
It is understandable that every cable doesn't have to and shouldn't support every feature. USB cables would be insaney overpriced in that case. For simple charging you don't need a high speed 40gbps cable that can connect an external GPU.
To mitigate the confusion, all simple charging cables should be universally labeled as such and all high speed cables should also have some markings that indicate the maximum speed of the cable or something similar.
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> Except that android phones with display output are mostly flagships with flagship prices.
Might well be that this becomes a lot more common on cheaper phones if it becomes a popular feature though. A display port output isn't currently that useful, so it's something it makes sense to cut from budget models. But if this desktop functionality becomes popular that calculus may change.
I am pretty sure brands would rather sell you additionnal devices, like tablets or chromebook (will they be called androidbooks?) than make budget models able to do so.
> Except that android phones with display output are mostly flagships with flagship prices.
There are exceptions. For example, the Motorola Edge has DP Alt Mode.
https://uperfect.com/blogs/wikimonitor/list-of-smartphones-w...
You don't wired need display output, just WiFi. Motorola's Smart Connect desktop uses Miracast for using TVs and the like as desktop monitors as well as wired.
I got my moto g84 5G with 8/256 GB for about 170 euros new and it supports it (not wired). Seems to work fine.
Is it any good? Last time I tried miracast the framerate and video quality was total garbage due to shit compression. Barely worked for streaming youtube videos to the TV but no way I could do it for productivity.
Same here. The only way to make streaming between devices is the way Apple does it, directly, not via Access Point.
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> Except that android phones with display output are mostly flagships with flagship prices.
My Motorola Photon Q 4G LTE was like $80 in 2015 and had a mini HDMI. I expect nowadays most phones can output display over USB-C.
Some "flagship" and higher-end-midtier phones cheap out on the USB connection. USB 2 over USB-C with USB-PD for fast charging. No video out, slow data transfers.
Maybe when desktop mode becomes more common there will be an incentive to fix the shitty USB situation.
Cheap phones probably won't really have the power to effectively multi-task so I imagine cheap models would rather disable the feature than leave the user with a bad UI.
> USB 2 over USB-C with USB-PD for fast charging.
Sometimes you're lucky to even have conformant USB-PD. For example, OnePlus for a while had "Warp charging" and the phones wouldn't accept high power over regular USB-C PD.
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Surprisingly, no. It's a "premium" feature these days.
Do you understand how much are 50 bucks in a third world country? I mean, Android phone is not the cheapest solution for the poor (obviously) but it helps a lot having this kind of features for a family.
>Do you understand how much are 50 bucks in a third world country?
Yes I do, no need to patronize us with that since even in 3rd world countries people have access to old computers from ewaste imports at a reasonable price, we don't all live in straw mudhuts wearing loincloths swinging from branch to branch.
Now tell me which 50 euro phone ships with display output and is readily available. AFAIK Oneplus 7T I had is the cheapest with that feature but still over 50 and official SW goes to Android 12. Not sure if flashing lineage will still keep display output feature.
Then there's the issue of availability in 3rd world countries, where it might be easier to find some scrapped Dell optiplex with a core 2 duo, or a beat up Acer from the windows 7 era for cheap at your local market versus a cheap android with display output capabilities being more of a unicorn. Sure you'll find your Pixel 8s and or Samsung S24s too, but those imports don't come cheap there, compared to the masses of lesser known cheap chinese phones but those don't have display output and their software is shit.
Plus, if you go that route of Pixel 8 as a pc, you still need the budget for an external display, mouse and keyboard and your battery will wear out much faster. So then why not get a cheap laptop which has all the peripherals?
Plus 2, old phones age very poorly performance wise, they slow down a lot due to thermal paste and battery degradation and nobody makes quality OP 7T batteries anymore to do a swap and get back to out of the box performance. What you find on Aliexpress now are fakes or poor quality clones. While a laptop is much easier to repair and maintain as parts wear out or break.
> people have access to old computers from ewaste imports at a reasonable price,
Are you joking?
One can get super good condition Dell latitudes with 8th gen Intel with 8GB RAM and 256GB NVMe with 1 year no-questions asked warranty (and original charger) for €100. Similar ones cost 2x or 3x in India. That is not reasonable.
> don't all live in straw mudhuts wearing loincloths
No. But not everyone is earning in Bengaluru campus. Look at the typical Rapido driver.
If you can't find an affordable phone with DP-Alt mode, you can get it working by getting clever.
Any Android phone with a USB port can have a dock attached with ethernet, a keyboard, and a mouse. Connect a Chromecast to any HDMI display. Cast to that display.
Then install 1) a taskbar app (there are dozens on Google Play), 2) enable freeform windows in the device and 3) cast your phone to your Chromecast.
Alternatively, even the shitty phones with just USB 2 dongles can enable their desktop mode by using DisplayLink; no DP-Alt mode necessary. Worse on the battery, but works over USB micro if need be.
The biggest hurdle is software support. For getting the display to work, there are plenty of workarounds possible.
Can you be specific which countries are you talking about?
Because you seem to be in a word fight with very vague arguments and with someone else with very vague arguments and it's not even clear you're talking about same things.
So can you be clear on:
- Which counties you're talking about? - Why are those countries important to think about in this case? - Why doesn't this feature help people from regions that can afford a mid-to-top range smartphone?
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This is mistaken in a few way.
1. In 3rd world countries everyone has a phone, usually android, no matter how poor the are. Irrespective of whether or not it has desktop capabilities. So any phone purchase is already part of their baseline expenses.
2. Any desktop/laptop purchase, even if it is $1, is an extra $1.
3. The screens/keyboards/mouse again will not likely be purchased by individuals themselves. They will have “Internet cafes”, libraries, schools, etc where those screens will be provided.
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